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[HogRydr]

During my reading of various TTS Mastertune topics on different forums, I've run across one that hasn't been expanded upon very well; EGR. I've learned when my V-tune process has been satisfactorily concluded (from a DIY perspective), I will then need to begin working on my EGR. No problem, other than I can't seem to find in the manual where it details the steps to take like it does for the V-tune activity. Is it there and I just don't see it or is this something an experienced tuner within this forum could help educate me on?

[North Georgia Hawg]

During my reading of various TTS Mastertune topics on different forums, I've run across one that hasn't been expanded upon very well; EGR. I've learned when my V-tune process has been satisfactorily concluded (from a DIY perspective), I will then need to begin working on my EGR. No problem, other than I can't seem to find in the manual where it details the steps to take like it does for the V-tune activity. Is it there and I just don't see it or is this something an experienced tuner within this forum could help educate me on?

EGRs are truly a BLACK ART! Maybe Mr. Wizard will chime in here with some education. I have personally watched him poring over my EGRs and telling me to shut up, go get a root beer, and not bother him while he mulls things over...

Ken

[Mr. Wizard]

I have several ways of using "Black Magic" when doing EGR's. Instead of BS'ing you please try this one approach. I want you to see it first hand.

Open your last VTune data recording and print out the EGR Analysis chart. Notice all the dots to the left of the red line? Those dots are under 60 kPa. They need to be moved to the line or just touching the line to the right side.

Take your last VTune calibration. Edit a EGR table, doesn't matter which one. Take a few cells around 2000 to 3000 and increment them by 50% or even double them. Save, calling it EGR test and flash the VTune calibration to your bike. Now go ride and record VTune data.

When you return open the new data file in DataMaster. View the EGR analysis and see what you did. Print it and compare.

Take the same data file and generate a new VTune.MT8 with it but call it EGR Test. Open the MT8 file and view the VE table for the cylinder you are testing. Use the 3D graph to view the new valley or new hippo hump you created.

The object of the EGR is to smooth out the VE's. The best visual you have is the 3D graph. When you smooth out the VE tables you create a relaxed envoirmnent for the ECM and your motor. They work less, run smoother and will increase your numbers including MPG.

As you go lower into the EGR table you will see that it takes more to move your VE or EGR dots.

1st third = 1
2nd third = 2
3nd third = 3

Meaning to move a EGR value at the higher RPM area you would need to use 3 times the percentage increase or decrease than you would use in the lower RPM area.

Mayor is a Guru at this as well.

[HogRydr]

I have several ways of using "Black Magic" when doing EGR's. Instead of BS'ing you please try this one approach. I want you to see it first hand.

Open your last VTune data recording and print out the EGR Analysis chart. Notice all the dots to the left of the red line? Those dots are under 60 kPa. They need to be moved to the line or just touching the line to the right side.

Take your last VTune calibration. Edit a EGR table, doesn't matter which one. Take a few cells around 2000 to 3000 and increment them by 50% or even double them. Save, calling it EGR test and flash the VTune calibration to your bike. Now go ride and record VTune data.

When you return open the new data file in DataMaster. View the EGR analysis and see what you did. Print it and compare.

Take the same data file and generate a new VTune.MT8 with it but call it EGR Test. Open the MT8 file and view the VE table for the cylinder you are testing. Use the 3D graph to view the new valley or new hippo hump you created.

The object of the EGR is to smooth out the VE's. The best visual you have is the 3D graph. When you smooth out the VE tables you create a relaxed envoirmnent for the ECM and your motor. They work less, run smoother and will increase your numbers including MPG.

As you go lower into the EGR table you will see that it takes more to move your VE or EGR dots.

1st third = 1
2nd third = 2
3nd third = 3

Meaning to move a EGR value at the higher RPM area you would need to use 3 times the percentage increase or decrease than you would use in the lower RPM area.

Mayor is a Guru at this as well.

This is exactly what I am looking for. An easy to understand guide that will assist me in getting my bike to the level of performance I want. Thank you Mr. Wizard.

[rider57]

I have several ways of using "Black Magic" when doing EGR's. Instead of BS'ing you please try this one approach. I want you to see it first hand.

Open your last VTune data recording and print out the EGR Analysis chart. Notice all the dots to the left of the red line? Those dots are under 60 kPa. They need to be moved to the line or just touching the line to the right side.

Take your last VTune calibration. Edit a EGR table, doesn't matter which one. Take a few cells around 2000 to 3000 and increment them by 50% or even double them. Save, calling it EGR test and flash the VTune calibration to your bike. Now go ride and record VTune data.

When you return open the new data file in DataMaster. View the EGR analysis and see what you did. Print it and compare.

Take the same data file and generate a new VTune.MT8 with it but call it EGR Test. Open the MT8 file and view the VE table for the cylinder you are testing. Use the 3D graph to view the new valley or new hippo hump you created.

The object of the EGR is to smooth out the VE's. The best visual you have is the 3D graph. When you smooth out the VE tables you create a relaxed envoirmnent for the ECM and your motor. They work less, run smoother and will increase your numbers including MPG.

As you go lower into the EGR table you will see that it takes more to move your VE or EGR dots.

1st third = 1
2nd third = 2
3nd third = 3

Meaning to move a EGR value at the higher RPM area you would need to use 3 times the percentage increase or decrease than you would use in the lower RPM area.

Mayor is a Guru at this as well.

Perfect, absolutely perfect explanation. 

[mayor]

I like Mr. Wizards explanation as well.  He noted it, but I think it needs to be stressed that the EGR tables have to be used in conjunction with additional vtuning.

The process is as basic as he mentioned-
step 1. verify where change is needed (cylinder specific). To do this you can use the egr analysis chart, but I just use the highlight feature in the Vtune software now.  That will get you pretty close, and with egr table adjustments it falls in the horseshoe and had grenade category IMO (close is good enough). 
step 2. make a change in the egr table (cylinder specific).  The % of change needed is 2 or 3 times or more the % of difference that you may see in some cases.
step 3. perform a vtune run to dial in the ve tables to the change
step 4. review your work...rinse and repeat as necessary (I only shoot for EGR table affected cells being with in 5% of the non EGR table affected trend line). 

I like and use this feature, for much of the reasons already mentioned. I think it also helps reduce the margin of error for a street tuner, since there’s less chance of holes in the ve tables.  Another benefit that I have seen with egr adjustments is by using this to reduce peaks, the cubic inch of the calibration can be more in line with the actual cubic inches of the engine. 

The toughest part of working the egr tables is they do not exactly line up with the ve tables.  You just need to look at surrounding cells and make educated guesses on which egr table cell to adjust.  You also need to consider that sometimes you will add value to the tables, and sometimes reduce values on the tables.  I found in most cases that 4k and up rpms need reductions, but you should collect some data before making the change just in case. I think lambda MAP based VE table cals are much easier to tune the EGR tables than the TPS VE table cals, since those calibration are already segmented into MAP.  It makes seeing where change is needed much more obvious. 

[hrdtail78]

During my reading of various TTS Mastertune topics on different forums, I've run across one that hasn't been expanded upon very well; EGR. I've learned when my V-tune process has been satisfactorily concluded (from a DIY perspective), I will then need to begin working on my EGR. No problem, other than I can't seem to find in the manual where it details the steps to take like it does for the V-tune activity. Is it there and I just don't see it or is this something an experienced tuner within this forum could help educate me on?

What cal. are you working with?  I do EGR from first or second vtune.  Another nice feature in vtune is Highlight Low Map under setting once you have it generated.  What mister Wizard explains w/ the printer.  I do on multi screens.  So, I explain it a bit different.  Same concept.  After I accept the generated cal.  I run vtune again with what I did the first time.  I use this to see my VE tables as I am looking at my EGR tables in Master Tune.

[HogRydr]

What cal. are you working with?  I do EGR from first or second vtune.  Another nice feature in vtune is Highlight Low Map under setting once you have it generated.  What mister Wizard explains w/ the printer.  I do on multi screens.  So, I explain it a bit different.  Same concept.  After I accept the generated cal.  I run vtune again with what I did the first time.  I use this to see my VE tables as I am looking at my EGR tables in Master Tune.

hrdtail. My apologies for not responding to your question. I got caught up in messing around with the EGR tables and time got away from me. To answer your question, I started with DTA04403-000.mt8. I've run several Vtunes building upon what I've learned on this forum. The files are up on box.net if you want to look at them; here's the link https://app.box.com/s/ykru96hhvqe7jf64i

Also, Vtuning with a MIMO rocks!

[emxgarcia]

Extremely useful explanation from both Wizard and Mayor, certainly validates you nicknames.

Thanks a lot, truly appreciated

Enrique


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[HogRydr]

I have several ways of using "Black Magic" when doing EGR's. Instead of BS'ing you please try this one approach. I want you to see it first hand.

Open your last VTune data recording and print out the EGR Analysis chart. Notice all the dots to the left of the red line? Those dots are under 60 kPa. They need to be moved to the line or just touching the line to the right side.

Take your last VTune calibration. Edit a EGR table, doesn't matter which one. Take a few cells around 2000 to 3000 and increment them by 50% or even double them. Save, calling it EGR test and flash the VTune calibration to your bike. Now go ride and record VTune data.

When you return open the new data file in DataMaster. View the EGR analysis and see what you did. Print it and compare.

Take the same data file and generate a new VTune.MT8 with it but call it EGR Test. Open the MT8 file and view the VE table for the cylinder you are testing. Use the 3D graph to view the new valley or new hippo hump you created.

The object of the EGR is to smooth out the VE's. The best visual you have is the 3D graph. When you smooth out the VE tables you create a relaxed envoirmnent for the ECM and your motor. They work less, run smoother and will increase your numbers including MPG.

As you go lower into the EGR table you will see that it takes more to move your VE or EGR dots.

1st third = 1
2nd third = 2
3nd third = 3

Meaning to move a EGR value at the higher RPM area you would need to use 3 times the percentage increase or decrease than you would use in the lower RPM area.

Mayor is a Guru at this as well.

Before I get too deep into the EGR, I just want to make sure I'm modifying in the correct area; do I make my changes in the top picture or the bottom picture?

[Mr. Wizard]

Before I get too deep into the EGR, I just want to make sure I'm modifying in the correct area; do I make my changes in the top picture or the bottom picture?

Make changes in the bottom picture to adjust the top picture with each following VTune run.

Don't forget your best friend, the 3D graph. When in VE table click on the 3D graph. Use both mouse buttons to spin this graph around so you can see the kPa and RPM lines better. Goal is to smooth this 3D graph as much as possible. No spikes or sudden valley's.

[HogRydr]

Make changes in the bottom picture to adjust the top picture with each following VTune run.

Don't forget your best friend, the 3D graph. When in VE table click on the 3D graph. Use both mouse buttons to spin this graph around so you can see the kPa and RPM lines better. Goal is to smooth this 3D graph as much as possible. No spikes or sudden valley's.

Sweet! That is exactly what I've been doing. Thank you Mr. Wizard.