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[cambo]

Now that I have pondered Cam's statement over a few more tall beers I have concluded that he is absolutely correct in his statement that Chrome parts are safer. Hats off to all Chromosapians!  Long live chrome.

Safety first!

[MrSurly]

I think it's actually very plausible.. The dealer never said it was 'losing fluid' only that it had 'air in it again'.
We (me too) all assumed based our experience that unexplained air meant that there had to be a leak.
The gassing explanation (if true) would absolutely explain the unexplained air in the system.
As any bubbles would form in the fluid they would displace their *tiny* volume by pushing that tiny bit of fluid into the CMC reservoir, but the total amount would have to be very very tiny. Entrained bubbles totaling a tenth of an ounce would be enough to wreak havoc on a system this small.
Yes, I'm buying it as plausible, if unproven.


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[jpb]

Cam explained to me on the phone that the master cylinder was half full on the first episode and bone dry on two other instances.

Gas bubbles take up space. They will displace fluid. If the bubbles were not dissipating on their own the master cylinder would be even fuller to the point it would expel fluid out of the master cylinder cover. Since none was seen at any time on the floor or anywhere for that matter it stands to reason that it likely it drained itself into the transmission via a defective piston seal on the actuator.

While I completely agree that the recall needs to be performed on his bike to eliminate this gassing potential I still feel it does not directly address his missing and disappearing fluid on multiple occasions.  The recall scope will however reach out and replace the actuator by default and hopefully it is finally fixed for good.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

[MrSurly]

We have zero disagreement. I don't recall it being stated here that the CMC was dry, only that "the dealer said it had air in it again" .
It is apparent that you have information from Cam that I don't and that information does present a different scenario.  I'm not going to re-read all these posts to verify but I don't recall the part about a dry CMC.
I agree that if it has been dry, then yes, the fluid went *somewhere* and the trans as I stated way back is where to look.
Since from the beginning of this saga we've not even managed to get *anyone* to check the trans fluid and report back, I'm now surprised to hear that we have a first hand report on the CMC.
The bike definitely needs to be fixed and given the crap they've put Cam through, I would find it just implausible to let it out the door withOUT replacing the actuator assy even if the dealer had to eat it just to be sure.



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[cambo]

We have zero disagreement. I don't recall it being stated here that the CMC was dry, only that "the dealer said it had air in it again" .
It is apparent that you have information from Cam that I don't and that information does present a different scenario.  I'm not going to re-read all these posts to verify but I don't recall the part about a dry CMC.
I agree that if it has been dry, then yes, the fluid went *somewhere* and the trans as I stated way back is where to look.
Since from the beginning of this saga we've not even managed to get *anyone* to check the trans fluid and report back, I'm now surprised to hear that we have a first hand report on the CMC.
The bike definitely needs to be fixed and given the crap they've put Cam through, I would find it just implausible to let it out the door withOUT replacing the actuator assy even if the dealer had to eat it just to be sure.



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The first time they fixed the bike and I went to pick it up the clutch was still not working. So they took it back and checked the fluid and that's when the mechanic told me it was 'bone dry'. He suggested applying a repair kit  to the master cylinder, bled the line, test rode it around the block and I was on my way, only to have the same problem the following day.

According to the dealer they applied the recall remedy to my bike this past Monday but then they reached out to HD and got authorization to not just do the recall but to replace the entire system because the problem had been more pervasive than the recall (they did no elaborate as to the extent). HD UPSed the parts and they installed them Tuesday, tested the bike and it worked perfectly. They wanted to keep the bike until next Tuesday to let it just sit and then ride it again. If all goes well I get it back next Wednesday.

[Phantom309]

It's not old news unfortunately. It certainly may sound like deja vu all over again, but this one was issued 11 days ago on April 14th. Ask me how I know! 

Cam

After reading your whole saga Cam all I can say is you are a trooper. Good luck when you pick it up (hopefully for the LAST time). I called one of the local stealers today and was told mine is ok ... I also punched mine in to HD and to the NHTSA (thanks for the link Jerry) in case the guy was BSing me. All that came up for mine is the possible pinched brake hose under the tank which I forgot about. I was gonna pull the tank last night and look at that until I remembered there's 6 gal of fuel in it, so that will wait til I run the tank down. That recall can stay open for all I care cause I'm not letting them mess with it unless I find a hose or hoses badly damaged that would need replaced ... hopefully I can just secure them be ok. My clutch master recall was closed from last year and the most recent one wasn't showing for mine. I do need to replace the gasket from the idiot who did it, gasket is squished out of place a tad from over-tightening the screws for the cover ... very slight seepage, but not dripping. Just goes to show nothing is done right unless you diy.

[sadunbar]

After reading your whole saga Cam all I can say is you are a trooper. Good luck when you pick it up (hopefully for the LAST time). I called one of the local stealers today and was told mine is ok ... I also punched mine in to HD and to the NHTSA (thanks for the link Jerry) in case the guy was BSing me. All that came up for mine is the possible pinched brake hose under the tank which I forgot about. I was gonna pull the tank last night and look at that until I remembered there's 6 gal of fuel in it, so that will wait til I run the tank down. That recall can stay open for all I care cause I'm not letting them mess with it unless I find a hose or hoses badly damaged that would need replaced ... hopefully I can just secure them be ok. My clutch master recall was closed from last year and the most recent one wasn't showing for mine. I do need to replace the gasket from the idiot who did it, gasket is squished out of place a tad from over-tightening the screws for the cover ... very slight seepage, but not dripping. Just goes to show nothing is done right unless you diy.

   Isn't that the truth...   

[MrSurly]

Cam,  I'm going to ask a favor of you...OK, make it two. While your bike is sitting there, please
1.) have them verify that they drained and refilled the transmission lube. ( the whole actuator could be removed without draining the trans)
Also,
2.) please ask for a full list of the part numbers used.

I remain curious about whether they changed the actuator assembly (the whole 'door') or just put a seal in the thing.


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[moscooter]

 
I'm no chemist nor a specialist in lubrications.  But,  I'm getting tired of the repeated "concern" about the transmission lube needing changed out.

Recall that Harley (touted) the use of Syn3 in all three holes............Hard to believe,  and most of us for sure didn't or don't use it in the transmission and instead use gear lube or a popular choice is Redline Heavy Duty Shock Proof.

With the above in mind, and the relatively minor amount of hydraulic fluid from the clutch that very likely went into the trans...........No BFD in my mind.

Should the Dealer change out the trans lube because of the clutch problem and the likelyhood that it did in fact end up in the trans..........probably so,  but if they don't,  I would venture to say the "dilution" from the hydraulic fluid is so minimal as to not be of any concern.

[cambo]

Cam,  I'm going to ask a favor of you...OK, make it two. While your bike is sitting there, please
1.) have them verify that they drained and refilled the transmission lube. ( the whole actuator could be removed without draining the trans)
Also,
2.) please ask for a full list of the part numbers used.

I remain curious about whether they changed the actuator assembly (the whole 'door') or just put a seal in the thing.


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According to Blake at the dealership they did check the fluid in the transmission and there was no cross contamination. Now I asked if they changed the fluid out and he said yes. Also I can't think of any other way they would check for contamination other than draining the fluid. I will ask for the paperwork. The previous two times it did not have a lot of detail, just that they bled the line and rebuilt(?) the master cylinder. Hopefully this time around they will include more info. If not I'll ask for the parts list.

Two more days and I'll get to ride the bike again! Have to get it ready for the trip to Ocean City with John (jpb). 

Cam

[skreminegul07]

Just speculating here, Why would a bike sitting be any more prone to a chemical reaction between components and fluid?  The system is full parts always in contact with fluid.

[zigscvobo]

 


 
Harley-Davidson Recall

April 26, 2015


Please see the following announcement from the Motorcycle Riders Foundation that was released on April 24, 2015:
 
HD recall - http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/harley-recalls-46000-motorcycles-30559287
 
Harley-Davidson is recalling nearly 46,000 motorcycles in the U.S. because
they could stay in gear due to clutches that won't fully disengage.
 
The recall covers certain Electra Glide, Ultra Limited, Police Electra
Glide, Street Glide, Road Glide and Road King models from the 2014 and
2015 model years.
 
Harley-Davidson Motor Co. said in documents that gas bubbles can cause the
clutch master cylinder to lose its ability to fully disengage the clutch,
especially if the bike has been parked for a long time. This could cause a
rider to lose control of the motorcycle if it's started in gear.
 
The problem was found through customer complaints. Harley reported 27
crashes and four minor injuries.
 
Dealers will flush the clutch and rebuild the master cylinder. The recall
was to start April 23

Matt Danielson
McGrath & Danielson
The Motorcycle Law Group
1-800-321-8968
Motorcyclelawgroup.com
 

[MrSurly]

I'm heading for the Texas Hill Country in two days and I'll be thinking of you and rooting for your ride to finally be fixed!


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[cambo]

I'm heading for the Texas Hill Country in two days and I'll be thinking of you and rooting for your ride to finally be fixed!


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Thanks MrSurly. I'm supposed to hear from the dealer today and get the bike back tomorrow. My cell phone is charged up and within reach and I frequently practice picking it up and answering it on the first ring in a very pleasant, friendly voice!

I have a ride to Ocean City planned for Friday AM. Between getting the bike on Wednesday and Friday AM there are floorboard extensions, shorty antenna, and HD premium shocks to be installed. In other words, if I don't get the bike tomorrow as promised I'll be seriously pi$$ed. Not that there's anything I can do about it other than forgetting about the friendly voice thing.

Fingers crossed even as I typed the above.

Cam

[MrSurly]

1.) I hope you're back on the road today!
2.) Evidence abounds that you don't get pissed easily.
3.) If they manage to cross THAT lofty threshold, I don't want to be nearby!

And <thread drift alert> The video in your sig has me so confused....is that someone reading a MAP while riding?
Maybe its the WSJ?