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[skullplant]

How do I know if I need a tuner? I put on Klock Werks Double Back headers and V&H Hi Output Carbon mufflers on my 2015 SG. I have had many Harley's throughout the years, none of them had tuners, they all ran good in my opinion. To me, this bike runs great. Seems more powerful after the exhaust change. I get no decel popping whatsoever. I have zero experience with tuners. Do I just install a tuner to see if it runs better. Thanks

[Sarhan]

How do I know if I need a tuner? I put on Klock Werks Double Back headers and V&H Hi Output Carbon mufflers on my 2015 SG. I have had many Harley's throughout the years, none of them had tuners, they all ran good in my opinion. To me, this bike runs great. Seems more powerful after the exhaust change. I get no decel popping whatsoever. I have zero experience with tuners. Do I just install a tuner to see if it runs better. Thanks

Most probably your engine is running lean, go through the form for members feedback.. TTS is good product

Sarhan   

[harleytuner]

It's simple really. Anytime you change the amount of air either entering or exiting (or both) you need fuel management of some sort to compensate for the extra air.

[skullplant]

It's simple really. Anytime you change the amount of air either entering or exiting (or both) you need fuel management of some sort to compensate for the extra air.

I understand that, but how do you explain why my bike seems to run great with no decel popping. Is it just that I've never had a tuner so I don't know what I'm missing?. Is it going to run much, much better with a tuner?

[woodman]

yes in my opinion. I run TTS on all my bikes. A good tuner(calibrator and a human)  will get the most out of your motor and it will run a lot cooler having the correct AFR air to fuel ratio

[GregKhougaz]

If the bike runs fine for you, great.  However, even a stock bike will run better, smoother and feel more responsive with a good Tune.  With your mods, it will run MUCH better with a proper tune.   If you do some reading here, you'll see. 

[harleytuner]

I understand that, but how do you explain why my bike seems to run great with no decel popping. Is it just that I've never had a tuner so I don't know what I'm missing?. Is it going to run much, much better with a tuner?

I believe that is the case. You've probably never ridden a week tuned bike.  Like Greg said, even stock bikes can run a lot better tuned. These bikes are to lean to begin with, adding more air without fuel is never a good idea.

[JCZ]

and in any internal combustion motor, any time it's running fuel starved (to lean) it will run hotter than a motor that's tuned properly.  Depending on how lean it's running will determine how much hotter it's running.

[HighOnHD]

and in any internal combustion motor, any time it's running fuel starved (to lean) it will run hotter than a motor that's tuned properly.  Depending on how lean it's running will determine how much hotter it's running.

And to add to what JCZ said, depending upon how much hotter it is running can determine rather the motor seizes! At this point you need to at least get an idea how lean it is now running after your changes. If you are still reluctant to get a tuner and a map for your setup (along with a possible dyno to follow) there is an old school check you can do YOURSELF. Pull the spark plugs out and look at them. They should have a nice light cocoa color to them. If they are white without color it is too lean. Black and sooty it is too rich. If you are not sure do it right and get a tuner and corresponding map. JMHO.

[fastfreddy]

   YES!!

[harleytuner]

To rich can be every bit as detrimental as being to lean as well.

[timo482]

This gets back to basics:

Forty g for a bike
Two or three for exhaust goodies that  straight up void the engine warranty.
Won't spend eight hundred for a tuner and a tune to make it run right

Then if it gets too hot and pukes blame Harley for it

These new bikes are not carbureted any more DONT mess with it unless you are going to do it right. They don't even have a wiring harness that can be diagnosed with a volt meter anymore.

[Ed Ramberger - One_Screamin_Eagle]

How do I know if I need a tuner? I put on Klock Werks Double Back headers and V&H Hi Output Carbon mufflers on my 2015 SG. I have had many Harley's throughout the years, none of them had tuners, they all ran good in my opinion. To me, this bike runs great. Seems more powerful after the exhaust change. I get no decel popping whatsoever. I have zero experience with tuners. Do I just install a tuner to see if it runs better. Thanks

The computer has an airflow table in it that is programmed to the stock configuration.  The computer uses this air table when calculating how much fuel to inject for a given desired air fuel ratio.  For example at cruise it may request 14.7:1 and at WOT it may request 12.5:1. When you change anything that changes the airflow through the engine, the airflow table in the computer is no longer accurate to the build.   It will achieve these results when the tables are accurate.

Your bike also has an adaptive fuel feature that will add or subtract up to 10% fuel above or below the base mapping. After that it is most likely about a 22% (or thereabouts - the value changed over the years) additional when it's running but the additional will not be written to the computer.  What happens when you add exhaust is the adaptive trims go up or down and the computer attempts to get it running back to the factory air fuel requests.  It adds this fuel in the closed loop areas and applies it in open loop conditions as well.

As the bike was ridden after the exhaust change, it began learning.  As an end user you can't see if the trims are maxed out.  If properly tuned by a competent tuner, there's probably a little more in it as the tuner will adjust WOT timing and fuel.  They can also slew the closed loop area to run slightly richer in closed loop (minimal but every little bit helps).  If you had changed compression, cams or anything that drastically changed airflow and compression, the adaptive fuel features would not be able to adjust for that as timing would also need to be addressed.

This is the simple version.  Hope this helps shed a little light on your question.

[Schnobel]

There is not a scenario I can think of where it's not a good thing to do in every case. Even when stock a custome tune can only make your bike run better. If you pulled 10 identical new bikes off the show floor and dyno'd them, they all may be a little different. A good tuner could make the most out of any of them.

I added a new Fullsac exhaust a few weeks ago along with getting a TTS map from Steve. I noticed a slight vibration between 1200-3k RPM after installing the pipes and tune. Took it to my local Indy dealer and he diagagnosed it right away as either being to lean or rich in one of the cylinders. Sure enough, dyno proved he was right on both accounts. Front was lean and rear was way rich. Didn't do a full tune since I am going to be doing some engine work on it soon but just tweaked it so the vibration went away till I did the work. Vibration gone and damn if it didn't run better with just what he did. With a fibula tune would have been even better.

Bottom line, I would always get a custom tune no matter what. Even if you get a canned map still a good idea IMHO.

[Ridgerunr]

Look at where the OP lives, Duluth, it's still 40 deg. in July. 

I'd get it tuned, eliminate possible engine damage from too lean or rich. Gas mileage can greatly be increased too.