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[SixGun]

What do you all think about Anti-Lock brakes?  The 2007 COP bikes already have them as an option, and I suspect the 2008 SEUC will have them as well.  They have to make some kind of changes each year.  We (CVO owners) were talking about it in the office the other day and I think we were about 50/50 on the option or the use of.  Has anyone on a bike ever used them?  Do you think that MOCO is only putting them on COP bikes to test them without liabilty?  Hell there ain't a page in my manual that doesn'y having a warning sticker on it, so you know they're scared of litigation. Check the MOCO link

http://www.harley-davidson.com/PR/MOT/POLI/2007/en/07_police_model.asp?locale=en_US&bmLocale=en_US&HDCWPSession=J8BQFyZJTqMv2h61f1y4J5DNwHYpjxlTJ1FLsGCFSTWS9vHNJbTn!448921992!1366119708&model=pl_toflhtp&section=police

[Twolanerider]

07 wasn't the first year for police availability.  HD had to offer it to maintain it's elegibility in many police contract bids.  Many jurisdiction's specifications either required it specifically or used a template (such as the California State requirement set) that specified it.

BMW has that sweet and small little ABS package.  Honda has had it for awhile now.  Harley hasn't even offered us the option.  Even the police ABS package isn't a real option for a regularly used touring bike.  The package (at least the last time I saw one) pretty well used up one saddlebag.

[SixGun]

Knowing that I guess I wouldn't want it.  My bike weighs enough now!  I'd still like to ride a Harley once that had them installed.

[Twolanerider]

Knowing that I guess I wouldn't want it.  My bike weighs enough now!  I'd still like to ride a Harley once that had them installed.

I've been on a Goldwing that had ABS installed.  It is hard, I mean really hard, to force yourself to intentionally try to lock up the brakes on something your riding.  Took me three tries to finally feel the system pulse and know that I'd felt it work.  It did work though. As an option ABS is something that several of us have discussed before here.  Wish Harley thought enough of our safety to make it at least an option.  Guess BMW and Honda love their customers more   .

[mr_magoo]

The size is a huge issue with HD abs like twolane said it takes up about 1/2 of the right saddle bag.  Not sure about the honda unit but the BWM unit is very small.

[JCZ]

They've offered it as an option on police bikes for a couple of years.  CHP requires it for a bike to be considered in their bidding.

I've had opportunity to talk with one of the guys involved with setting the bike up for the CHP to test.  The ABS system is supposed to be smaller this year (I'm not sure if he meant model year 07 or 08, now that I think about it).  The bike that he showed me the system on was one that was being readied for sale as it had run it's course with law enforcement use.  HD also looks at it kind of like the run flat tires (not available to the public, either).......that the ABS system is unsafe for the inexperienced rider.  I'm not sure what HD's thoughts are on the inexperienced rider who locks up the back wheel and flops the bike as a result. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

The run flat tire is only for police use and is "illegal" to use on a private owned street model.  I asked why?  I was told that because it's rated at a certain weight limit (It may have been 200 or 250 lbs........I don't really remember the weight limit).  So I pushed the issue.......so if one of those little bitty, skinny guys who had a skinny woman that came in under the weight limit.....they could run these tires?  The answer was "No!".  I then asked "well, what about the 6'6" CHP officer that rings the bell at 285 lbs. is he prohibited from using those tires?"  The answer was "No".  That was about the time that I realized that I was starting to irritate this guy so I backed off. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

The ABS system that he showed me was quite large and did take up a lot of the saddle bag area (it's under the saddle bag).  I didn't think to ask him if the ABS system was going to be removed, prior to selling the bike to the general public.  He did mention that they were getting ready to change the tires.

[txbear55]

As one whose last bike was a  ABS Goldwing, I can tell you that it's nearly criminal that HD does not offer it to it's riders.  I did have occasion to use it in a SHTF situation and it works beautifully.  The bike stops NOW without any drama (except your potentially dirty shorts!).  Same situation on a HD would have smokin' tires and probably a downed bike.  Throw in wet streets, gravel, etc. and the ABS shines even more!  Maybe next year HD will pull their corporate heads out.

[Twolanerider]

Maybe next year HD will pull their corporate heads out.

With liabilities often decided on industury standards and contemporary technology it's surprised me that even HD has lagged this far behind actually.  They'll get dragged before a Federal or state court someday sooner rather than later and then do it when they have rather than when they should have.

[skyglide]

Spoke to several chips WI. state troopers last year at an demonstration of anti-lock brakes vs. traditional braking and what a difference the anti-brakes made in stopping distance of all obstacles performed high and low speed. They all praised it with no bad coments. Did take up some rm in the bag as mentioned. Would like to try sometime if offered. I for one would give up the rm for the added benefit of safety. Hopefully they will retrofit unit smaller? Theres always that ugly amp do do away with

[Twolanerider]

Spoke to several chips WI. state troopers last year at an demonstration of anti-lock brakes vs. traditional braking and what a difference the anti-brakes made in stopping distance of all obstacles performed high and low speed. They all praised it with no bad coments. Did take up some rm in the bag as mentioned. Would like to try sometime if offered. I for one would give up the rm for the added benefit of safety. Hopefully they will retrofit unit smaller? Theres always that ugly amp do do away with

If you ever get a chance to look at a Beemer see what the little BMW unit looks like.  Tiny thing (relatively speaking).  If Harley can't make their own they should just buy license rights and build that one.

[SixGun]

I'm all about technology.  Anytime you can engineer out a hazard it's a winner.  It seems to me in the digital world you could make the processor a lot smaller than it currently is.

[rubaga]

I came to HD world from BMW. One of the bikes I used was LT. What I found is that ABS was not used in 95% of situations. However, 5% in which it was necessary had to do with very sudden and urgent braking. Effectively on instinct.  My feeling is that it takes daily riding all year round to be constantly ready not to lock the brakes on a bike w/o ABS in an emergency situation. Given that I am not riding in winter and drive mostly on weekends I would appreciate if HD had ABS. I need it.  Does not matter how much it would weight as long as it would work.

Just my 2 cents.

[Twolanerider]

I came to HD world from BMW. One of the bikes I used was LT. What I found is that ABS was not used in 95% of situations. However, 5% in which it was necessary had to do with very sudden and urgent braking. Effectively on instinct.  My feeling is that it takes daily riding all year round to be constantly ready not to lock the brakes on a bike w/o ABS in an emergency situation. Given that I am not riding in winter and drive mostly on weekends I would appreciate if HD had ABS. I need it.  Does not matter how much it would weight as long as it would work.

Just my 2 cents.

No disagreement at all.  While riding I relatively regularly "practice" panic stops.  Just to keep the feel of it current.  Practice is not reality though.  If a sudden enough oh-chit moment presents itself all you're doing is squeezing and stomping.  We never need nor would care about ABS for 99.99% of our riding.  It's that .01% that would otherwise kick our ass that I personally would like to have it there for.

[JR]

No disagreement at all.  [highlight]While riding I relatively regularly "practice" panic stops[/highlight].  Just to keep the feel of it current.  Practice is not reality though.  If a sudden enough oh-chit moment presents itself all you're doing is squeezing and stomping.  We never need nor would care about ABS for 99.99% of our riding.  [highlight]It's that .01% that would otherwise kick our ass that I personally would like to have it there for.[/highlight]

Panic stops is a practice we all should be familiar with! I have never been on a scooter with ABS so I wouldn't know what I'm missing. Having them on everything else I drive I can see the benefits we would gain having them. Just wondering how if any different it would be on a scooter. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

                                                                    JR [smiley=bananarock.gif]

[Twolanerider]

Panic stops is a practice we all should be familiar with! I have never been on a scooter with ABS so I wouldn't know what I'm missing. Having them on everything else I drive I can see the benefits we would gain having them. Just wondering how if any different it would be on a scooter. [smiley=nixweiss.gif]

                                                                    JR [smiley=bananarock.gif]

JR, the real benefit was immediately noticed the two times I finally got the courage to stomp on that Goldwing enough to engage the system.  The benefit is when we freak bad enough that the wheels for sure would lock, they just don't.  You maintain control.

I got real lucky the last time I went down about three years ago now.  Saw this Ford SUV coming across traffic against a red light early enough to see it and react to while also knowing I'd never get stopped without splatting like a bug against the side of it.  So while the bike was still in control was able to lay it down.  Fortunately it all worked right.  Bike and rider both slid straight.  An hour later we both made the ride from Paducah on to Joplin to get home.  

The only other time I've laid a bike down the bike wasn't under control.  Probably never could have been due to sudden and unexpected crap in the road.  But the point is that the ABS will (most of the time) help us keep the bike under control to keep it up, ridden and managed.  That's not the only time being under control is helpful though.  It's every bit as important if you have to pull the bike down too.  Hopefully with ABS, however, you'd have the dual benefit of greater control and having to pull it down even slightly less often.