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[erniezap]

DC,

I agree with what you are saying, but Freedom does a great job as well.  I don't know if they have a closed loop system for the 07's or not, but like Zippers, they make some great products

[Midnight Rider]

DC,

I agree with what you are saying, but Freedom does a great job as well.  I don't know if they have a closed loop system for the 07's or not, but like Zippers, they make some great products

Ernie...that just comes down to an East Coast/West Coast choice...both companies make great products, and you can't go wrong with either.  I think Zippers has the jump start on everybody with their new Auto-Tune, but others will soon catch up.

[erniezap]

Ernie...that just comes down to an East Coast/West Coast choice...both companies make great products, and you can't go wrong with either.  I think Zippers has the jump start on everybody with their new Auto-Tune, but others will soon catch up.

Totally agree!

[Hoist!]

You can get your bike to run right and maintain your warranty at the same time. You can't get the max performance, but you can get a properly running motorcycle. No reason to say it's all one way or the other. That's what we're trying to do here. Find the best way to do both. And we're all entitled to a properly running motorcycle after spending $30K! Hoist! 8-)

[kojak]

 :)Right on, Bro!

[FLHRSE3]

Man this thread has taken off. I have read all of the replys and I am still kind of confused with the decisions people are thinking about making.

If you are worried about your warranty then I would do nothing. Give it time the heat will help you grenade the motor. Then you can see how fast your warranty works. It should work but how much time are you looking at. If it is riding season you may lose it all.

For me the SERT is not even an option and with the PC you are removing the O2 sensors. Not a bad thing. You are better with no sensors then a narrow band sensor IMHO. But you still need to pay for a dyno tune.

I still think the Thundermax with Auto Tune is the best choice. If you have a problem replace your stock ECM and sensors and take it back to the dealer. The thing everyone is overlooking. Zippers can and does build some of the fastest motors out there EVERYDAY. I have witnessed it live and in color. For the average street guy looking for just a little added punch and more reliability Zippers is the ONLY way to go. You will get a tested system that will last. [highlight]If you are shopping price and looking for the cheapest way to go then my question is. WHY DID YOU EVEN BUY A CVO??[/highlight] IMHO that is like being house poor. That big house looks good on the outside. You have laid down a lot of cash so why sacrifice? You can bet I will not. When they did my build I wasn't looking to be the fastest out there. If I was I would have a 120 inch motor pushing 170HP in my frame. They build these motors all day long. What I have is a proven combination that will last and is fun to drive. It has it all. Low throttle response. great TQ down low and when I twist the wick it has a lot on top end.

So it would be an easy choice for me. Thundermax.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

DAWG

I hear you man, that is exactly what I told myself this afternoon.  In the past week or so I have pretty much talked myself into going the Thundermax/Autotune route (thanks partially to the favorable assessments offered by fellow forum members) and I was contemplating going for the current $100 off deal on the rebuilt kits. I then thought why take a chance on something that has possibly already failed once, may have an intermittent problem and may malfunction again in the future thus resulting in unneeded hassles just to save a $100 on a mod for a 30K bike, there is no logic in that.  Besides I’m still unsure on which exhaust system I want to go with and odds are it will get changed again in the future.  The TM/AT combo will eliminate another trip to the tuner and by that time I’m already past the breakeven point and will have enjoyed a better running bike all along.  At least that is the logic that I have convinced myself of, today anyway.

Gregg

[DCFIREMANN]

DAWG,
  I agree wholeheartedly with you, Bro!  But looking back, I can remember back in my trial and error days, in my quest for more HP.  Being young, green, and somewhat naive, I acted on a lot of advice that was truly wrong, in more things than the pursuit of HP, I'm sorry to say.  It was only when I had had enough, and sought out the "Legends" in the making of HP, made it a point to become Friends with them, informed them of what I was looking for, and asked them, "How much?"  That's when I started running up front.  Our Engines are nothing but air pumps.  If the air-flow is restricted in the exhaust, as opposed to the intake, that breeds the enemy of performance and long engine life.  The brain-child of our illustrious EPA.  There endeth the lesson.  Later--HUBBARD      

You know Hubbard I think we both walked down the same trail. It is funny to think back on those days.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

DC,

[highlight]I agree with what you are saying, but Freedom does a great job as well.[/highlight]  I don't know if they have a closed loop system for the 07's or not, but like Zippers, they make some great products

ERNIE as Terry said it is an east coast west coast thing. I have no problem with Freedon except distance. I would actually like to make the trip out there some day and see the place.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

Ernie...that just comes down to an East Coast/West Coast choice...both companies make great products, and you can't go wrong with either.  [highlight]I think Zippers has the jump start on everybody with their new Auto-Tune, but others will soon catch up.[/highlight]

Terry that is correct. The only problem there is Zippers doesn't wait around they are on the cutting edge. That is why they are where they are at today. They have a great bunch of guys (sorry Lisa) working down there and are always looking for something new to develop. Someday I am going to try to do a CVO tour down there. You guys would be amazed.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

You can get your bike to run right and maintain your warranty at the same time. You can't get the max performance, but you can get a properly running motorcycle. No reason to say it's all one way or the other. That's what we're trying to do here. Find the best way to do both. And we're all entitled to a properly running motorcycle after spending $30K! Hoist! 8-)

HOIST what I am trying to tell you is. The bike runs per the MOCO and the EPA! In that respect it runs right! Also remember the MOCO monitors this site EVERYDAY!

You can do anything you want with your bike. If you play with the fuel injection mangement and they know about it they can void your warranty. NO GRAY AREA THERE. If you want the bike to run better and last longer you need to spice up the A/F mixture. Again there is NO GRAY AREA THERE either. It will run better and run cooler and will last longer. The last thing I would worry about after the first 1000 miles is the motor warranty. It should last especially if it is running cooler. If you don't abuse the bike and you break something I really don't think it would ever be a problem. If you have a good releationship with your dealer I would bet you would be OK.

Of all of the 110 motors that we know have failed, how many were bone stock? How many were not bone stock? How many had warranty problems getting the motor replaced? I think we would all be suprised at the numbers.

You are talking about a PC or SERT. That is OK but you money is better spent buying the Thunder Max with Auto Tune. The people at Zippers will make it run better, cooler and be more reliable. I have had a Thunder Max almost since it was introduced. I have never had a problem with it. After the installation of the A/C exhaust and Thunder Max my little 103 broke the 100 mark with H/P and T/Q and with 8.7 to 1 compression. After the install of the Thunder Max I had great driveabilty and throttle response. A lot of people had doubt about the Thunder Max and for good reason, it had some problems in the beginning. That was almost 3 years ago. Zippers has pumped tons of money into this system. It is now the best fuel injection mangement system available today. You will get a 30 money back trial period. What do you have to lose? You will have everything to gain and a great system to build on in the future.

You made the statement that we are all here to learn. Yep that is all I am trying to do is educate you. Look back at Mr. Hubbards post. That says it all!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

DAWG

I hear you man, that is exactly what I told myself this afternoon.  In the past week or so I have pretty much talked myself into going the Thundermax/Autotune route (thanks partially to the favorable assessments offered by fellow forum members) and I was contemplating going for the current $100 off deal on the rebuilt kits. I then thought why take a chance on something that has possibly already failed once, may have an intermittent problem and may malfunction again in the future thus resulting in unneeded hassles just to save a $100 on a mod for a 30K bike, there is no logic in that.  Besides I’m still unsure on which exhaust system I want to go with and odds are it will get changed again in the future.  The TM/AT combo will eliminate another trip to the tuner and by that time I’m already past the breakeven point and will have enjoyed a better running bike all along.  At least that is the logic that I have convinced myself of, today anyway.

Gregg

Gregg I know you will be happy with the Auto Tune. I have yet to have it installed on the new motor, but you can bet come spring it will be on Punkin!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Hoist!]

HOIST what I am trying to tell you is. The bike runs per the MOCO and the EPA! In that respect it runs right! Also remember the MOCO monitors this site EVERYDAY!

You can do anything you want with your bike. If you play with the fuel injection mangement and they know about it they can void your warranty. NO GRAY AREA THERE. If you want the bike to run better and last longer you need to spice up the A/F mixture. Again there is NO GRAY AREA THERE either. It will run better and run cooler and will last longer. The last thing I would worry about after the first 1000 miles is the motor warranty. It should last especially if it is running cooler. If you don't abuse the bike and you break something I really don't think it would ever be a problem. If you have a good releationship with your dealer I would bet you would be OK.

Of all of the 110 motors that we know have failed, how many were bone stock? How many were not bone stock? How many had warranty problems getting the motor replaced? I think we would all be suprised at the numbers.

You are talking about a PC or SERT. That is OK but you money is better spent buying the Thunder Max with Auto Tune. The people at Zippers will make it run better, cooler and be more reliable. I have had a Thunder Max almost since it was introduced. I have never had a problem with it. After the installation of the A/C exhaust and Thunder Max my little 103 broke the 100 mark with H/P and T/Q and with 8.7 to 1 compression. After the install of the Thunder Max I had great driveabilty and throttle response. A lot of people had doubt about the Thunder Max and for good reason, it had some problems in the beginning. That was almost 3 years ago. Zippers has pumped tons of money into this system. It is now the best fuel injection mangement system available today. You will get a 30 money back trial period. What do you have to lose? You will have everything to gain and a great system to build on in the future.

You made the statement that we are all here to learn. Yep that is all I am trying to do is educate you. Look back at Mr. Hubbards post. That says it all!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Thanks Mike, you've made a few points that might have been missed by the group while we're deciding what to do about this situation. You know, we know, and if what you say is true about MoCo monitoring this site, they damn well know too, that these bikes are ticking time bimbs. They need to be set up right and should then last like a HD should, as you stated, for many more than 1K mi. If they monitor this, and know how bad things are, they got some set of b@lls torturing us over a warranty when we're making these bikes much more reliable than when we first got them, probably relieving them from $$$ on needless warranty claims!!! That said. after researching the various systems, there's no doubt in my mind that the TMax /AutoTune is by far the best fuel/ignition management system available. However, the simplicity and nationwide availability of the PC is appealing. It's way easier to put a PC system back to stock than a TMax system. If only mufflers are added for the first 2 years, you'll only need one Dyno-tune and you can leave the bike alone. There's no need for self-tuning at that point. For basically $500 you can have the bike run properly. After I've shaken out allthe bugs from the bike in the first 2 years, I'll be free and confident to do what I want then. The TMax should be completely perfected by then. I'd probably do the gear-drive cams, maybe throttle body, and probably the TMax then. I personally don't mind spending that extra $500 for choosing to do this work in phases. I appreciate your interest to share the best ECM system around, and I agree that it is. For me, I think I'll hold off a little. After all, it'll give me something else to look forward to changing later! Hoist! 8-)

[DCFIREMANN]

Hoist you can spend 500.00 on the PC and the dyno tune or spend a few dollars more and get the Thunder Max now. Zippers has some special pricing going on now for the unit. It is a very easy install and you have a library of maps avail to you for future mods. Plus you won't have a used outdated PC to sell in the future. JMHO!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Hoist!]

Hoist you can spend 500.00 on the PC and the dyno tune or spend a few dollars more and get the Thunder Max now. Zippers has some special pricing going on now for the unit. It is a very easy install and you have a library of maps avail to you for future mods. Plus you won't have a used outdated PC to sell in the future. JMHO!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

You're making this real tough ain't you Mike? Let me ask you a question. How much work will it be on side the road, to switch back completely to stock, including O2 sensors, vs. the same thing with the PC. The PC and O2 Elims need to be removed. That's it. The TMax requires you carry the stock ECM and O2 sensors around and replace both on the side of the road. I'm trying to keep it easy. And it's not like I don't like the TMax. I actually think that it has to be the best system. Like I said it's not the $500. I might cave before the 2 years are up if this bike proves to be completetly trouble-free, but until I know I got a "Wednesday Bike", I'm just trying to keep it simple. My friend is PC Certified and has his own Dyno, so I'm not too concerned about tuning. You make a real strong case for it though! Man you gotta be tough on this site to hold on to your $$$, huh? Thanks again Mike, you never know, I might be talking about doing the TMax sooner than later! I hope everyone keeps up with that thread about their experiences/ problems, etc. with the TMax, especially the new version with the ACR's. I'd also like to see confirmation that it's totally perfected in all areas, from more people here, before taking the plunge. Hoist! 8-)

[geezerglide]

THE DAWG,

Been reading some of the posts re the THUNDER  MAX Auto Tune
Presently have the Jims 120, reworked VORTEC Heads by SBC S&S 640G cams, rest engine stock. Have Kurayakyn 57mm TB c/w 6.33 Injectors, runnung V&H Pro Pipe, soon to change back to Freedom Cycle True Duals.

Engine tuned with HD SERT custom MAP. Engine puts out 131 hp and 134 ft lbs TQ.

Question 1).

Since the engine is in an 03 Road Glide and using the electrics from that year, Closed Loop System. How does one adapt the Open Loop System? I assume the Oxygen Sensors of the newer Thunder Max. I assume having bungs placed into the Freedom Cycle True Duals?

Question 2)

What benefit will I derive from switching to the Thunder Max System, besides not having to retune and dyno if I change exhaust systems etc. or am I in left field thinking it is that simple. And besides throttle response, which is excellent now what will it do for me?

Thanks in advance,

geezerglide