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[DCFIREMANN]

[highlight]I know my jokes aren't always the funniest but they're still jokes. Mike, I said that to be amusing. Sorry you weren't amused. I thought by putting 3 laughing smileys after, that it would clearly be taken as a joke![/highlight]
I've always liked Zippers stuff too. I'm going to Dyno the bike with the PP and SPO's with the stock ECM and compare the results to stock my SERK numbers. If the A/F is fairly close, then I'll use the PC for ease of removal for now. If the numbers show it's way leaner than the stock set-up, I'll have some rethinking to do. That might require the SERT and working with my dealer. Then again, my dealer doesn't work on my bike, doesn't have a Dyno, and doesn't use the SERT. They sub the work out and use a V&H FuelPak. So this option is not ideal either.

The TM AT is ultimately the system to use. If I don't like the results of the stock ECM operation with PP and SPO's, I might just bite the bullet now and take my chances with it. If I do, I might just take you up on that offer to pop it in for free beer! I wouldn't mind a nice little trip to the MD mountains! Hoist! 8-)

Hoist actually I did take it as a joke. No problem here I promise. It is funny as I have been asked that question before. Everyone knows I have been dealing with Zippers for many years and I am on a frist name basis with most of the employees. They really are a great bunch of guys( and girls)

As far as the install in the mountains YOU ARE MORE THAN WELCOME! I would be happy to install the unit and pound down a few beers. Just let me know when you are ready!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[Midnight Rider]

Hey Mike...how about Cams, lifters, pushrods, oil pump?  I'll do better than a couple of beers...

[Hoist!]

Hoist actually I did take it as a joke. No problem here I promise. It is funny as I have been asked that question before. Everyone knows I have been dealing with Zippers for many years and I am on a frist name basis with most of the employees. They really are a great bunch of guys( and girls)

As far as the install in the mountains YOU ARE MORE THAN WELCOME! I would be happy to install the unit and pound down a few beers. Just let me know when you are ready!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Thanks a lot Mike. I'll see how my preliminary testing goes and then make a decision. If it's really bad now (stock) or with just the SPO's, I'll be coming to see you. If I think I can get away with limping along on a stock ECM, just for warranty claims, I'll stick with the PC. If that happens, I'll definitely be switching over in 2 years! Hoist! 8-)

[twojay]

I might just take you up on that offer to pop it in for free beer! I wouldn't mind a nice little trip to the MD mountains!  Hoist!  

Hey Howie, THE DAWG offered to put a TMax in for me for beer not you so you need to negotiate your own payment plan.    You know I am kidding. But I do have another newbie question. My new  SERK is at dealership and they are putting on some mods. I had ordered the D & D Fat Cat 2 in 1 and SERT. ( I know, stupid of me, but dealer had a  mild stroke when I had originally mentioned the TMax). They had received the SERT but had not even ordered the pipes yet. Keep in mind my bike is on the rack at this time. I asked whether or not they would have a problem tuning the bike once the pipes were installed with the SERT not supporting the auto compression release. I was told that there was no need for tuning when pipes  were installed because bike was tuned at factory.  I was also  told no need for tuning when a SERT was installed.  I thought the tuning would be required because of these mods plus I had intended on requesting  lower A/F ratio.  Am  I missing something here? This tech had also sent my K and N 0800 filter back because it was the same as the se filter that came on bike, his opinion, as well as my detachable docking hardware kit because as I had not ordered the tour pak he could not adjust it without the brackets that come with tour pak.

[Midnight Rider]

I might just take you up on that offer to pop it in for free beer! I wouldn't mind a nice little trip to the MD mountains!  Hoist!  

Hey Howie, THE DAWG offered to put a TMax in for me for beer not you so you need to negotiate your own payment plan.    You know I am kidding. But I do have another newbie question. My new  SERK is at dealership and they are putting on some mods. I had ordered the D & D Fat Cat 2 in 1 and SERT. ( I know, stupid of me, but dealer had a  mild stroke when I had originally mentioned the TMax). They had received the SERT but had not even ordered the pipes yet. Keep in mind my bike is on the rack at this time. I asked whether or not they would have a problem tuning the bike once the pipes were installed with the SERT not supporting the auto compression release. I was told that there was no need for tuning when pipes  were installed because bike was tuned at factory.  I was also  told no need for tuning when a SERT was installed.  I thought the tuning would be required because of these mods plus I had intended on requesting  lower A/F ratio.  Am  I missing something here? This tech had also sent my K and N 0800 filter back because it was the same as the se filter that came on bike, his opinion, as well as my detachable docking hardware kit because as I had not ordered the tour pak he could not adjust it without the brackets that come with tour pak.

TwoJ...run, don't walk from this tech!!!!!!!!  He does not know anything in the world about what he is talking about!!!!

You didn't address that to me, but I'm for real here...whoever it is that is telling you this BS is a dumb ass.  For one, the K&N is a reusable filter, and far superior in every way to the POS paper filter provided my HD.  The SERT does not modify your ECM's ability to allow the compression releases to function normally.  At the very LEAST, the tech needs to install the #84 (or is it 89?) MAP in the bike when you add the pipes.  If you're A/F ratio is not modified when you install the D&D's you will burn this motor up!!  It will be the dealer's problem, but I don't think you want more down time while they replace your engine this summer.

I'm serious, man...you are either being lied to, or this guy doesn't know his butt from hole in the ground!!

[Midnight Rider]

One other thing...the D&D Fatcat 2 into 1 is a high flowing, power producing exhaust system...you have an SE Air cleaner on your bike from the factory, even though it's a paper element and should be replaced by a K&N...these pipes will use ALL the air your air cleaner is capable of giving it, and then some.  Your A/F ratio is going to be SOOOOOOO lean, it will be off the scale.  The ONLY way to get this setup right is to have the bike tuned with the SERT you are paying hard earned money for, but you cannot run the bike on a dyno at WOT under the loads necessary to properly tune it until it is broken in...at least 1000 miles.  You could do a partial tune after the first 50.  I'm not familiar with the setup MAPs in the new version of the SERT, but you really need to be sure they load one that is close to your setup before you drive the bike out the door.

[twojay]

One other thing...the D&D Fatcat 2 into 1 is a high flowing, power producing exhaust system...you have an SE Air cleaner on your bike from the factory, even though it's a paper element and should be replaced by a K&N...these pipes will use ALL the air your air cleaner is capable of giving it, and then some.  Your A/F ratio is going to be SOOOOOOO lean, it will be off the scale.  The ONLY way to get this setup right is to have the bike tuned with the SERT you are paying hard earned money for, but you cannot run the bike on a dyno at WOT under the loads necessary to properly tune it until it is broken in...at least 1000 miles.  You could do a partial tune after the first 50.  I'm not familiar with the setup MAPs in the new version of the SERT, but you really need to be sure they load one that is close to your setup before you drive the bike out the door.

TCnBham
Thanks a lot for your response. When he said no need for tuning after installing the fat cat's I was 99.99% sure we had a major problem but wanted to verify that with the more knowledgable members. I had brought up the auto compression release issue because there is a new service bulletin (someone referenced it on this site) TT284 that said current SERT maps do not support the auto compression releases on the 110 with new calibration being available in Feb. The tech did confirm this but said if they installed the SERT they would de-activate the auto compression release?? Wasn't sure what that meant but at that point in time I wasn't going to ask this guy any questions. What I will probably do is have them send the SERT back, leave factory pipes on for a break in period and then go elsewhere for mods. Again, thanks for your help. It's guys like you that make this the best CVO site out there. I really appreciate it and hope that someday I can return the favor. JJ  

[Hoist!]

TwoJ...run, don't walk from this tech!!!!!!!!  He does not know anything in the world about what he is talking about!!!!

You didn't address that to me, but I'm for real here...whoever it is that is telling you this BS is a dumb ass.  For one, the K&N is a reusable filter, and far superior in every way to the POS paper filter provided my HD.  The SERT does not modify your ECM's ability to allow the compression releases to function normally.  At the very LEAST, the tech needs to install the #84 (or is it 89?) MAP in the bike when you add the pipes.  If you're A/F ratio is not modified when you install the D&D's you will burn this motor up!!  It will be the dealer's problem, but I don't think you want more down time while they replace your engine this summer.

I'm serious, man...you are either being lied to, or this guy doesn't know his butt from hole in the ground!!

Hey JJ, what TC said! The K&N replaces the POS that comes with the bike. As I explained to you earlier, the ECM needs modifying even if you leave it stock. No one at HD and few others might agree, but IMO even a stock motor is too lean. Every motorcycle needs to be tuned, whether it's got a PC or SERT, as no two are identical. Only the TMax w/AT is self-tuning. Get the straight story from this guy or find a tuner that knows his stuff and do what he recommends and will stand behind! Hoist! 8-)

[Hoist!]

TCnBham
Thanks a lot for your response. When he said no need for tuning after installing the fat cat's I was 99.99% sure we had a major problem but wanted to verify that with the more knowledgable members. I had brought up the auto compression release issue because there is a new service bulletin (someone referenced it on this site) TT284 that said current SERT maps do not support the auto compression releases on the 110 with new calibration being available in Feb. The tech did confirm this but said if they installed the SERT they would de-activate the auto compression release?? Wasn't sure what that meant but at that point in time I wasn't going to ask this guy any questions. [highlight]What I will probably do is have them send the SERT back, leave factory pipes on for a break in period and then go elsewhere for mods.[/highlight] Again, thanks for your help. It's guys like you that make this the best CVO site out there. I really appreciate it and hope that someday I can return the favor. JJ  

Now you've got it. It's not easy finding people that know their chit when it comes to this. I learned so much thru this site, that I know more than most tuners who think it's OK to BS you, while they give you what they want to. You gotta know what you want to get what you want!. Otherwise you'll get what you get if you don't know what you want! And that's usually not good!!! Hoist! 8-)

[Midnight Rider]

The absolute bare minimum that must be downloaded into your ECM by hooking up the SERT, is MAP #84,which comes on the CD with the SERT.  You might get by with this download for the first 50 miles, but after that, it needs to be tuned.

Quite honestly, you'd be better off having them put the stock pipes back on (if they're off), getting your parts that you've already paid for, and getting that scooter off their lift, breaking it in stock, then after 1K, putting the parts on and getting it tuned by somebody who knows what they're talking about.

Calibration # 84: 2007 Touring Exhaust with O2 Sensors
Configuration: 1800 SE A/C & Race Exhaust
File Name:S159MV002-A0.MT6
Components:
• SE Air Cleaner and Breather Kit P/N 29440-99C
• Race Exhaust

[Midnight Rider]

TCnBham
Thanks a lot for your response. When he said no need for tuning after installing the fat cat's I was 99.99% sure we had a major problem but wanted to verify that with the more knowledgable members. I had brought up the auto compression release issue because there is a new service bulletin (someone referenced it on this site) TT284 that said current SERT maps do not support the auto compression releases on the 110 with new calibration being available in Feb. The tech did confirm this but said if they installed the SERT they would de-activate the auto compression release?? Wasn't sure what that meant but at that point in time I wasn't going to ask this guy any questions. What I will probably do is have them send the SERT back, leave factory pipes on for a break in period and then go elsewhere for mods. Again, thanks for your help. It's guys like you that make this the best CVO site out there. I really appreciate it and hope that someday I can return the favor. JJ  

2J...sorry, I didn't see this response before I posted my last one above....you're doing the right thing here, bro.  Get the bike away from these guys and do what you mentioned above.

Sorry for getting on a rant, but it really gets under my skin when someone is being shot a line of crap from a dealer who does not know what they're doing.  You will find this place (not necessarily me...there are a lot of folks here who have forgotten more than I know) to be more helpful than anywhere else you can turn.  Then when you go to your tech, you can know what it is you want, and expect, and quickly be able to tell if you're being shot a line of BS.

[SBB]

2J...sorry, I didn't see this response before I posted my last one above....you're doing the right thing here, bro.  Get the bike away from these guys and do what you mentioned above.

Sorry for getting on a rant, but it really gets under my skin when someone is being shot a line of crap from a dealer who does not know what they're doing.  You will find this place (not necessarily me...there are a lot of folks here who have forgotten more than I know) to be more helpful than anywhere else you can turn.  Then when you go to your tech, you can know what it is you want, and expect, and quickly be able to tell if you're being shot a line of BS.

Terry


On a RANT???
Not in my book.
Your callin B/S on B/S.
Just glad you are here to help him!


 [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif]

[Pbody]

Hey Gents...
I've read through quite a bit of this thread, as well as others, and I'm now hoping you'll humor me with some answers to a few questions.  I've learned a lot on this web site and really do appreciate the high level of technical knowledge being shared here.  I'd just like to confirm some of the information I've read, and tailor it to my concerns.

My '07 SEUC is still sitting at the dealer, waiting for me to return from Iraq, then mail it to Okinawa.  I don't have access to tuners on Okinawa, so I'm looking for the best possible DIY solution to several problems.  My SEUC and I may not make it back stateside for a couple more years.

1. She has only 9 miles on her--I've owned her since Sept.  After reading different experiences here, I'm very concerned about this 110 burning itself up--mainly because I'll have her so far from home. (There is a dealer nearby, I know they'll honor the HD warranty, but I'm not sure how far they'll go to work with me.)
2. I'll still have 18 months of warranty left, once I get to start riding her.  With the problem of #1, I think I need to keep warranty in tact.
3. Part of my decision to buy this thing was based on the advertised stock torque/HP numbers--not knowing they were engine numbers vice rear-wheel numbers.  I'd like to get my 110 to break 100 lbft of torque, at the lower RPM range.
4. Without a dyno tuner available, I need to be able to get the A/F in a decent range. I'm familiar with tuning the PC III.
5. Based on experience with my 02 Ultra, the driver's seat can get pretty hot.  I'd like to increase the comfort level by reducing the heat in that rear cylinder area.

I'm pretty well sold on this combination, to start with; Thunder Max/Auto Tune, Vance and Hines Ovals (or maybe Hooker slip-ons) and V&H True Duals and Power Pac air cleaner.  Based on what I've read here, this should get me into triple digits for torque, allow me to tune for a better A/F ratio, and reduce the heat issue.

Okay, my questions for the experienced audience:
a. Should I make changes as soon as I get access to the bike, or should I go ahead and break it in as stock--to the 500 mile mark?, to the 1000 mark?  It gets hot and sticky in Okinawa. Engine temp is a concern--but so is proper break-in.
b. I'm sold on the TM/AT configuration.  I understand this replaces the stock ECM and sensors.  If I have a warranty issue, can I just restore the stock ECM/sensors with no one the wiser?  A couple of messages spoke of the ECU keeping check on hours running vs miles driven. It's possible, but is it true?
c. Will this configuration significantly reduce the temps under the driver's seat?
d. I've read here about the TM causing problems with the ACR and fuses being blown in the past (and I think someone said something about a problem with turn signals not cancelling?).  Have all these issues been solved for the current TM, for my 110?  Are there any known problems, related to the 07 110's, with the latest TM/AT set up?  Is the ACR function working correctly yet?

Sorry this turned into such a long post...

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Charles...

[Hoist!]

Oh boy pbody, I've been going thru the same thought process for the last 3 months. IMO, you need to do something immediately about the AFR. That stated, the PC is an easier to deal with for warranty but the TM/AT will self-tune, probably suiting your needs better. The TM/AT replaces the stock ECM, while the PC is an add-on, that can easily be removed. I'm going to determine once and for all if we can even ride these bikes w/ intake and exhaust changes, on a stock ECM! I'm going to test different scenarios on the Dyno. Read my last few posts here and if you can wait, I'll know more when the weather's good enough to get my bike on the Dyno! If not, and knowing you don't have a tuner, I'd probably do the TM/AT. Putting in a map to the PC is not good enough. You need to Dyno-tune it as well. Every motor's different.

I'll leave it to others to answer the issues you raised, but I would do something from the start.

Good luck with your new bike! Hoist! 8-)

[Pbody]

Oh boy pbody, I've been going thru the same thought process for the last 3 months. IMO, you need to do something immediately about the AFR. That stated, the PC is an easier to deal with for warranty but the TM/AT will self-tune, probably suiting your needs better. The TM/AT replaces the stock ECM, while the PC is an add-on, that can easily be removed. I'm going to determine once and for all if we can even ride these bikes w/ intake and exhaust changes, on a stock ECM! I'm going to test different scenarios on the Dyno. Read my last few posts here and if you can wait, I'll know more when the weather's good enough to get my bike on the Dyno! If not, and knowing you don't have a tuner, I'd probably do the TM/AT. Putting in a map to the PC is not good enough. You need to Dyno-tune it as well. Every motor's different.

I'll leave it to others to answer the issues you raised, but I would do something from the start.

Good luck with your new bike! Hoist! 8-)

Thanks Hoist!
I've read through your many posts and will watch for the results of your tests.  Congrats on receiving your new SERK.  It looks great!

Charles...