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[grc]

When I bought my '15 back in June, I "called the dealers hand" about what the Harley literature all says.  I pointed out that their own literature says very clearly that the addition of certain parts would void the engine warranty.  The sales manager and my salesman both looked at me like I was crazy, but they took me more seriously when I told them I would walk away from the deal without proper assurances.  I got both an email and a handshake warranty (good phrase, Lance!) from the guys. 
I was told that with all the EPA regulations out there, the MoCo has to say something "official" in their literature concerning things like this in order to appease the "government gods".  Basically they said that what happens after the sale is between me and the dealer.  They said there was no way they wouldn't support my warranty and asked me what I thought would happen if the word got out that they wouldn't honor the warranty on a part they install regularly on new and used bikes alike and recommend to boot.  I basically got the same story about pulling a trailer.  They told me they couldn't install hitch for me due to the implications that went with it and that unless I was abusing the bike or the tranny in some provable way, and maintaining my service intervals, that they would still honor warranty.
Whether or not that proves true is still TBD.  My intention is to buy an extended warranty before the two year mark, but before I do, I'm going to get them to renew that "handshake warranty" with me.

That "handshake warranty" and $5 will get you a cup of so-so coffee over at the local Starbucks.  And the story about having to place that disclaimer on the warranty to satisfy the EPA gods is also BS.  The truth is that the dealer who installs that illegal emission system defeating equipment is violating Federal law, as well as State law in some states, and is opening himself up to $10,000 fines for each occurrence if the EPA were to decide to bust his butt.  Ask the Power Commander folks about the big fines they had to pay CARB many years back.   H-D itself could also be in violation and face huge fines if the EPA were to ever get serious, and maybe after all the egg on their faces from the recent disclosures about how long VW was able to cheat and EPA did nothing, EPA will finally get serious.

Anyway, one thing you really need to understand when it comes to either the factory warranty, or the ESP service agreement, is that ultimately the dealer doesn't get the last word on whether or not something is going to be covered.  H-D decides if they will honor any claims under the factory warranty, and the outside company CNA decides if they will honor claims under the service contract.  All the verbal nonsense from dealerships is worth squat if it comes down to a legal dispute after H-D or CNA deny your claim.  If you want some measure of assurance, you will insist on a written agreement from the dealer principle (not the service manager or other employee) with the dealer's notarized signature on it.

There are more than a few people just on this site who can tell you about either an H-D rep or a CNA rep denying their claims even after a dealership swore they would take care of them.  If you don't have an iron clad legal agreement with that dealer that basically says he will pay for any repairs if H-D or CNA deny your claim, you don't have anything.

Jerry

[RGlideKid]

Peace, guys!
I already know all of that, and I agree with you and I appreciate your comments anyway.  Heck, I don't trust that handshake or a verbal, or even an email either!  I wasn't born yesterday!  But we're caught between a rock and a hard place with these mods. 
I certainly didn't try to come off like a naive dummy in my emails, and I'm sure none of you didn't mean it that way either, but in the end, it's the best we're going to get from a dealer anyway, isn't it? 
Very few of us want to live with the stock setup when it comes to performance, so what else can we do?  And additionally, there are many of us who purchase an extended warranty and already have a SEPST or some other warranty ruining device(s) on our bike, so are we all naive?
Wow! Guess I touched off a nerve or two, huh?

[Para Bellum]

Wow! Guess I touched off a nerve or two, huh?

I think you dealt with a very important aspect of the warranty and the dealer.  Story:  A guy in my HOG chapter bought a used Tri-Glide from local dealer, along with 3 years of ESP that dealer was happy to sell.  Guy mounted a hitch, but hadn't towed yet.  Rear differential went bad a week before he was leaving for 110th Celebration in Milwaukee (guy and his wife then rode old Heritage from West Coast to Mil, so he wasn't happy to start).

Guy didn't know about hitch = void ESP, so he didn't think about it.  Dealer service didn't think to tell him, and they didn't remove hitch.  ESP inspector voided his ESP.  The original repair bill was $5200.  Dealer knocked off $1700 for goodwill, but guy was still stuck for $3500.  I don't know if he got any money back from the voided ESP.  Anybody know for sure?

This happened at home, but as has been pointed out, if you're on a trip, it's going to be hard to re-install the original headers, mufflers, and tune before it's towed to the nearest dealer---who may or may not help you "get over" on HD or the ESP administrator.

So it's still caveat emptor (buyer beware) out there.  This topic could save you a lot of money, or...

[Nicky Pass]

I know it "shunned", but I had the dealer put the pipes and tuner on my 15 CVO Street Glide and I've had them do the same thing to my previous bikes.  I've never had a problem having any work done for warranty or a recall.  I believe if you spend your money to have mods done at the dealer that would do warranty work, you "should" be okay.  I have a good relationship with my dealer, but when I have anything done, the Italian in me shines.  I'll bring the guys a case of Coors, and I usually tip the tech doing the work.  Does it do anything really...who knows.  I'll tell you this....they all know my name and know I'm particular.

[grc]

I think you dealt with a very important aspect of the warranty and the dealer.  Story:  A guy in my HOG chapter bought a used Tri-Glide from local dealer, along with 3 years of ESP that dealer was happy to sell.  Guy mounted a hitch, but hadn't towed yet.  Rear differential went bad a week before he was leaving for 110th Celebration in Milwaukee (guy and his wife then rode old Heritage from West Coast to Mil, so he wasn't happy to start).

Guy didn't know about hitch = void ESP, so he didn't think about it.  Dealer service didn't think to tell him, and they didn't remove hitch.  ESP inspector voided his ESP.  The original repair bill was $5200.  Dealer knocked off $1700 for goodwill, but guy was still stuck for $3500.  I don't know if he got any money back from the voided ESP.  Anybody know for sure?

This happened at home, but as has been pointed out, if you're on a trip, it's going to be hard to re-install the original headers, mufflers, and tune before it's towed to the nearest dealer---who may or may not help you "get over" on HD or the ESP administrator.

So it's still caveat emptor (buyer beware) out there.  This topic could save you a lot of money, or...

You can file a claim for a refund of the unused amount of the ESP, but it will never be close to what you might think it would be.  Let's say you paid $2000 for a 4 year ESP, and it was cancelled after 1 year.  You might think you would get a $1500 refund (75% of the full period was unused), but that's not how it works.  A certain amount comes off the top and doesn't enter into the calculations.  You'd have to talk to the people at CNA for real numbers of course.  Don't forget, the dealership makes a big commission on the purchase of the ESP, and of course H-D gets paid for endorsing and promoting the product as well.  I would imagine if you were to haul out the contract, get a big magnifier, and read through the fine print there should be some reference to the refund process.  If not, a call to CNA customer service might get an answer.

You made a good point that affects a lot of people riding touring models.  No matter how much schmoozing you do with that local dealership, it doesn't count for diddly when you have a failure out on the road away from home.  And even if you have a failure locally and take the bike to that dealer you think loves you like a brother, if either the Harley rep or the CNA rep deny the claim, unless that dealer is willing to step up and pay for the repair himself, you're chit out of luck.  That's why I recommend to people who like to believe their dealer would never leave them holding the bag to get any verbal agreements put in writing and then signed by the dealer and notarized.  All the free beer in the world for the techs isn't going to convince the average Harley dealer to pay your $3000 repair bill out of his pocket. 

Jerry

[ACfixer]

The handshake warranty (most likely from the dealer you bought it from) is the only thing you're going to get unless you want to leave your bike stock. I mean face it, to be fair how can you "expect" anything else? I'm an HVAC contractor and of course I offer a one year labor warranty and support the factory warranty, usually ten years on new equipment. Imagine if I installed a new A/C unit in your house, got paid and then left... and a week later you shopped for some part on the internet that could make your compressor run harder and blow colder than the factory setup. You pay someone besides me to install it and it kicks some butt, but 6 months later the compressor kicks off and you call me to honor the warranty. Now being that I like my customers I'm going to try my best to honor the warranty so they like me in return... and I'm going to turn my head at the mods and submit the claim but if that A/C manufacturer asks me to send the compressor back to the factory for inspection and they deny the warranty based on a modification why would I cover it? What if you add a couple ducts to cool an addition or garage conversion that wasn't calc'd under the original install plan? Pretty much the same thing as towing a trailer right? You're adding a workload that wasn't counted on in the original plan and you're basically beating the equipment to death asking it to do something that it wasn't really intended to do. Same thing, I'm going to turn my head and fix it because I enjoy a good reputation and that's worth far more to me than a few hundred dollar repair... it keeps me in good favor and gets me good referrals which is exactly what your local dealer should strive for so people don't take their business elsewhere, but let's face it if the mothership denies an expensive claim and you had someone besides me modify it, well I can only do so much.

You guys may say it's worth squat, but depending on your dealer squat can be worth something or it can be worth nothing. Like Nicky Pass said, although there's no Italian in me that I know of, I grease everyone with kindness, compliments, tips, pizza... whatever. It's old school bartering and "you're only as good as your word" business that my dad taught me. If you go in there acting like a dick and whining when they take too long for your service or some other piddly thing then I'd pretty much expect them to not like you and those chickens will be home to roost in the future.

I fixed the HVAC unit at the Harley dealer where I bought my bike the other day... It didn't cost me much, maybe $10 in parts and a half hour labor. No way I'm going to charge them anything, I want that same consideration if the need arises and I hope I can count on that. It's all we have or can expect to have when we mod our bikes, a little kindness can go a long ways.

[skratch]

You guys may say it's worth squat, but depending on your dealer squat can be worth something or it can be worth nothing. Like Nicky Pass said, although there's no Italian in me that I know of, I grease everyone with kindness, compliments, tips, pizza... whatever. It's old school bartering and "you're only as good as your word" business that my dad taught me. If you go in there acting like a dick and whining when they take too long for your service or some other piddly thing then I'd pretty much expect them to not like you and those chickens will be home to roost in the future.

I fixed the HVAC unit at the Harley dealer where I bought my bike the other day... It didn't cost me much, maybe $10 in parts and a half hour labor. No way I'm going to charge them anything, I want that same consideration if the need arises and I hope I can count on that. It's all we have or can expect to have when we mod our bikes, a little kindness can go a long ways.

i used to feel the same way.  i do most of my own maintenance, and the only thing that any of my bikes have seen a dealer for is the 1k service and any subsequent warranty repairs.  i used to go in to the dealer pretty regular (even though it's 50 miles one way) and buy something small so that 'they would know and remember me'.  what i've found is that in the past few years, i get the same questions every time i go in.  'what do you ride?', 'did you buy here?', etc.  my point being that they don't/didn't remember me because every time i'd go in, there would be all new people.  so instead of buying something small, i will order 4 or 6 oil filters from my favorite online dealer.  saves a few bucks and i have the parts on hand.

but i do agree also that if you go in there acting like a dick, that's how you're gonna get treated.  and the dealer is not going to go anywhere out of his way to help you, even if he could.

[Nicky Pass]

I fixed the HVAC unit at the Harley dealer where I bought my bike the other day... It didn't cost me much, maybe $10 in parts and a half hour labor. No way I'm going to charge them anything, I want that same consideration if the need arises and I hope I can count on that. It's all we have or can expect to have when we mod our bikes, a little kindness can go a long ways.

Ha!  Sounds familiar!  My family business, commercial HVAC, supplied the contractor with all of the ductwork for their building.  When they need duct/spiral pipe for their new dyno room, I made all of the duct for them, and when they asked for the bill, I said....one hand washes the other, it's on me.  A months later, I had dropped the bike off to get a full exhaust put on, a tune, a headlight trim ring and a 1000 mile service....when I picked it up, I asked where my bill was, and the service manager's response was....this is the other hand washing! 

I have a great relationship with my dealer.

[ACfixer]

Ha!  Sounds familiar!  My family business, commercial HVAC, supplied the contractor with all of the ductwork for their building.  When they need duct/spiral pipe for their new dyno room, I made all of the duct for them, and when they asked for the bill, I said....one hand washes the other, it's on me.  A months later, I had dropped the bike off to get a full exhaust put on, a tune, a headlight trim ring and a 1000 mile service....when I picked it up, I asked where my bill was, and the service manager's response was....this is the other hand washing! 

I have a great relationship with my dealer.

It's old school Nick, and to me it's beyond important that we at least TRY to develop a relationship with the dealer... Over the years I've spent probably close to $80K there and I hope the American spirit of hanging on to a good customer still exists. I've kept them informed of every mod I had planned for the bike and got the "a-ok" each time. I read some horror stories here, in particular the poor guy in Canada that has a brand new bike with a terrible vibration and I just shake my head and wonder how anyone can treat a customer like that.

Anyway, not to derail... I suggest to the OP that if you are going to mod your motorcycle and hope to retain the warranty, do your very best to become friends with the people that can make your life easier.