Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[DaBigNuttedMan]

hey DooD and everyone else, ever heard of smoke detectors [sorta accidentily] burning houses down? what happens is the ones with 9 volt box batteries chirp low battery, the occupant changes the battery and throws the old battery away, well the old battery may not be "hot" enough too make the grade for a smoke detector standing by ready to scream for a 1/2 hour or more, but it's plenty hot enough to light a fire in your trash can when it shorts steel wool or a beer can or foil combined with paper, it's because the 9 volt box batterys + & - terminals are side by side and 9 volts are plenty when shorted by real light conductor. On the survival shows they use a 9 volt box batt all the time to light fires, and the smoke detectors ironically got a lot of people throwing hot batts away. I bet by now they probably moved away from the 9 volt batt, I heard this about 5 years ago, if ya pitch one wrap in electric tape, shot it dead or destroy it somehow. Just sayin    yall be cool now yahear 

feels foolish quoting myself but [to you firemen] are there still any 9 volt box battery models made? did the industry address this? anyone ever heard of this?     C-mon Gary

[ultrarider123]

I don't know if the person who built our home in 2004 had been involved in a fire prior to building or not but we took ownership from them two years later and not long after moving in, we (read that me) had to get up at 2 AM and find the chirp.  Again, I knew there were quite a few detectors in our two story 2,200 sq ft home and ours are tied together but not all of them chirped, only the one with the low battery.  However, I found out that we had 11 smoke detectors in our small house.  It took me 45 minutes to find the chirper and it wasn't one of those 11.....yes, there were three more in the basement (14 total) and it was one of those.

I have to take out a small loan twice a year just to replace the 9 volt batteries......

Glad to have 'em, however.  If 14 smoke detectors alarming don't wake me up, I'm already absent from my body and present with the Lord....

[Fired00d]

feels foolish quoting myself but [to you firemen] are there still any 9 volt box battery models made? did the industry address this? anyone ever heard of this?     C-mon Gary

There are still 9-volt battery powered smoke detectors available (just checked Lowes.com and they are showing a couple). Not sure what you are speaking of as it regards "did the industry address this"?

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[dayne66]

Reduce the # of detectors.....you'll need to keep them outside of bedrooms and at least one on each floor.....is pretty standard code. The red / black/ white will be individually pigtailed in the boxes. Just remove the wire-nut...remove the pigtail & replace the wire-nut and put a decorative cover on the octagon box at each one you're eliminating.
Just might save you some frustration......and money on batteries.....and eventual replacement of 14 detectors!
 

[grc]

feels foolish quoting myself but [to you firemen] are there still any 9 volt box battery models made? did the industry address this? anyone ever heard of this?     C-mon Gary

You can still buy good ol' 9V batteries pretty much anywhere, and they are still used in smoke alarms as well as many other products like garage door opener remotes, etc.  That isn't likely to change any time soon.

The issue is that having the positive and negative terminals in close proximity makes it very easy to short the battery when you dispose of it.  I solved that problem many years ago by applying a strip of electrical tape across the top of the batteries whenever they weren't either in the original packaging or in the actual device.  Btw, it's much better to collect your used batteries and dispose of them at one of the many places that will recycle them, versus tossing them in the trash can.

Jerry

[moscooter]

 
All of mine are the 9 volt type.  Some of them have the non-alkaline batteries in them and still show 8.97 volts on my meter.

I can agree with changing them (periodically),  but the voltage draw is absolutely minimal and changing them out maybe every second year should be more than adequate (time-wise).  The mention of swapping them all out every time the "daylight savings" changes is gross overkill of the need here.

[DaBigNuttedMan]

all I'm getting at is that the 9 volt smoke detector has a way of getting people to dispose of a lot of 9 volt batts, and I read that is one battery that [improperly disposed of] can easily burn your house down. I guess what I meant by "industry addressing it" is a great big, maybe eye catching fluorescent green warning label that the maintenance  your gonna be doing needs done with caution to the proper disposal of a battery that can easily burn your house down.

[grc]

All of mine are the 9 volt type.  Some of them have the non-alkaline batteries in them and still show 8.97 volts on my meter.

I can agree with changing them (periodically),  but the voltage draw is absolutely minimal and changing them out maybe every second year should be more than adequate (time-wise).  The mention of swapping them all out every time the "daylight savings" changes is gross overkill of the need here.

I think that old recommendation to change them when you change the clocks for DST goes back to when most smoke detectors were strictly battery powered.  Even then, once a year would have been sufficient, twice a year excessive.  With hard wired 120 VAC models that only use the batteries when the utility power fails, even once a year is excessive IMHO.  I'm running combination smoke and CO 120 volt detectors that are networked per latest code, and they have voice alarms.  If the battery is low, the alarm chirp is accompanied by a voice telling me the batteries are low, plus there is a visual indicator (flashing light) on the unit.  The actual alarms are also accompanied by voice announcements, either fire or CO messages.  The units have a useful life of eight years due to the CO sensors, and after four years I finally changed the backup batteries this year.  They still hadn't reached the point where the units had determined they should be changed.  Four years from now the actual detectors will all be replaced.

Jerry

[grc]

all I'm getting at is that the 9 volt smoke detector has a way of getting people to dispose of a lot of 9 volt batts, and I read that is one battery that [improperly disposed of] can easily burn your house down. I guess what I meant by "industry addressing it" is a great big, maybe eye catching fluorescent green warning label that the maintenance  your gonna be doing needs done with caution to the proper disposal of a battery that can easily burn your house down.

I agree wholeheartedly.  I forget exactly what caused me to start covering them with electrical tape, but more than likely it was reading an article somewhere that mentioned the potential problem.  The industry could at least place a highly visible warning on the package alerting people to the issue.

Jerry

[CVOStreetglide]

I hope we learn that one of our members avoided a catitrophic event because they took the time to read this thread and all of the excellent information provided by the experts--you guys!!

MANY THANKS FOR SHARING!!

Jerry

[Fired00d]

all I'm getting at is that the 9 volt smoke detector has a way of getting people to dispose of a lot of 9 volt batts, and I read that is one battery that [improperly disposed of] can easily burn your house down. I guess what I meant by "industry addressing it" is a great big, maybe eye catching fluorescent green warning label that the maintenance  your gonna be doing needs done with caution to the proper disposal of a battery that can easily burn your house down.

I think Jerry (grc) addressed the best method of disposing of those batteries, but as for the "industry addressing" the proper disposal that would be the battery industry and outside my area of expertise. The possibility does exist, however I think it is less of a possibility to some of the other dangers I've seen in my career. I've lost count of the fires I've been on because someone cleaned out their fireplace, put the ashes in a paper bag, and put the bag outside on their wooden deck only to find out later that night that their house is on fire. Not many realize that ashes from a fireplace can remain warm/hot (enough to start a fire) for days after the fire is out. When disposed of in a combustible container (paper bag) on a combustible surface (wooden deck) and then put outside where there may be wind gusts are a recipe for disaster.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Fired00d]

While on the topic of smoke detectors a lot don't know/realize that smoke detectors come in two variations (Photoelectric & Ionization) of sensors. One type (Ionization) alerts to a flaming, fast moving fire while the other (Photoelectric) alerts to a slow, smoldering fire. The best detector to get is a combination (one that has both sensors mentioned above). FYI I've attached a document that will give you more information.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[BostonboyDH]

     Read the Attachment Dood listed in his post.
   In Massachusetts the fire code does not allow the use of the older style ion smoke detectors within 20 ft of a kitchen or steam producing bath room, photoelectric detectors shall only be used in those locations do to the ion sensors will trigger from light cooking smoke and steam from showers,( I like my bacon extra crispy ) and people generally remove the batteries or take them down due to nuisance false alarms and forget to reinstall them after their done cooking, Both types of sensors must be used in locations more than 20 ft from a kitchen or full bath due to the different sensor technology as Dood has stated in his post!   As Gerry has stated Black tape across the top for disposal makes alot of sense, that never crossed my mind but then why is it all firemen have a can of gas in their car or pickup!!!!     

  BostonBoy

[porthole]

why is it all firemen have a can of gas in their car or pickup!!!!     

Never have, never will 

The whole change the battery at some "event", birthday, anniversary, christmas etc was just a way to get people to at least change the batteries once a year. Without some type of schedule they never get changed.
Batteries that are not changed once a year tend to never get changed. I have no idea how many low battery alarms I have been to over the years, I also couldn't tell you how many times we have been to houses that have smoke detectors with no or dead batteries.

Any call we go to that has anything to do with a smoke or fire alarm gets the alarms tested while we are at the residence. We replace dead batteries. If a smoke detector is not at  a required location e.g. bedrooms - we put one up. We will not leave an occupied residence without an operating smoke alarm.

Smoke detector operation, if related to the call, is a part of our "NFIRS" fire report we fill out for every call we go out on. (NFIRS National Fire Incident Reporting System)

120 AC tied together smoke alarms will only beep at the detector with the low battery.

Just because a battery is new doesn't mean it is good

I don't know about the rest of the country, but in New Jersey standard alkaline batteries are now disposed of in household trash.

Although I doubt many people are in the habit of dumping steel wool and batteries in the trash at the same time.
There are knuckleheads with steel wool, 9 volt batteries and some string that can really do stupid things.

https://www.google.com/search?q=9+volt+battery+and+steel+wool+spinner&espv=2&biw=1152&bih=593&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjRo4qmpeLKAhVGbR4KHQYSDaMQsAQIIw

We did have two dim wits try the spinner in their garage several years ago. LtBawb's last night before retiring (one of our member's here), we were working the same house together. Ain't nothing like someone banging on the bay door at 2am screaming "feugo" (2 blocks from the firehouse and the house ended up being gutted)

Batteries are cheap enough in multipacks that there is no reason not to change them once a year - and - test the detector while you are at it.

Although code does not require it, our township ordinance recommends a smoke detector in each bedroom in addition to the code required SD outside the bedroom. If you think about it, why not have a SD inside the closed door.

In my own house, besides each bedroom having a detector, I also have detectors in the open rooms that are separated from adjacent detectors with a header, e.g. the living room next to the foyer is separated with an exposed header so the LR has it's own SD.

Don't want to change the batteries once a year, don't do it, there is no law that says you have to or that they have to work (rentals are an exception), until it comes time to sell the house. Many municipalities require a SD inspection prior to renting or selling.

See attached NFPA structure fire facts.

Operating smoke detectors really do save lives.

2-3 months after my town passed a smoke detector ordinance requiring all residences to have SD's installed (mid 80's), two teenage girls were killed in a house fire - no SD's were installed.

[DaBigNuttedMan]

I hope nobody thinks I'm talking these things down, we have em and of course they save lives, just getting at the discarded battery is still plenty hot and paper, tissues and steelwool like brillo and sos pads and 9 volt box batterys are all very common household kitchen trash can items. If the guy with 14 detectors changes batts twice a year that's 28 hot 9 volt batts possibly in with the brillo pads and paper, don't forget other light conductors that can get quite hot.
 Of course it's not the S-D, watch out for a still capable 9 v and the garbage can.