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[Twolanerider]

Don I have a kit and I told the Dealer about the problems with the cylinders. I also told him about "THE SPECIAL TORQUE PLATE" he did some checking and yes there is one and yes it is on back order and NO it is not a required Harley Tool that the Dealerships are supposed to keep in stock in the shop. I put the particular's on here along with the part number. Sooooo I told them to check the cylinders with the required plate and let me know if they are out or not. If they are not out I will buy them otherwise COUNT ME OUT!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

That's interesting Mike.  Thanks for the info.  When the time comes the dealer actually ever gets the plates if you get a chance to see/fondle them I'd love to know the differences.

[DCFIREMANN]

Witness the test, 5 places from top to bottom thrust and non thrust sides.

I won't have to witness it. The person that is going to measure them is top notch and so is the Dealer. I may go down there when they do measure them AND I hope they are right.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[DCFIREMANN]

That's interesting Mike.  Thanks for the info.  When the time comes the dealer actually ever gets the plates if you get a chance to see/fondle them I'd love to know the differences.

I don't suspect they are any different. They are listed in the Dealer tools catalog as being for the CVO cylinders with a 110-113 displacement. So that would be for 4.0 through 4.060 cylinder bore. But now we have the 4.125 cylinder bore and now they say OH this is now the SPECIAL TOOL to use on the new larger bore. Now the funny thing here is, the cylinder liners on the 110-113 and the 117 are different. These clowns in Customer Service are a joke. They must get paid on commission for all of the trash they can stick us with and how much bullchit they can spew. HD Customer Service is worse then their product quality anymore. It has gotten so bad if I have a problem I just do the upgrade and repair it myself. Just like the motor on the new bike. 23,500 miles and the rear cam bearing is trashed. Well no matter what displacement I end up with it that motor will be stronger, faster and more reliable then it was the day it was born. Now if Zippers would hurry up and get my stock heads and cylinders done, I will be a happy man!!!!!

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[HunterJ]

I suppose the outer dimensions on these cylinders are all the same. So I don't see any need for a special plate anyway. If the walls are too thin and they are indeed distorting when clamped, then I imagine we will see the results by end of summer. I'm hoping the ones that have been out of round are rare. I'd like to be able to confidently install one of these sets next winter.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[DCFIREMANN]

I suppose the outer dimensions on these cylinders are all the same. So I don't see any need for a special plate anyway. If the walls are too thin and they are indeed distorting when clamped, then I imagine we will see the results by end of summer. I'm hoping the ones that have been out of round are rare. I'd like to be able to confidently install one of these sets next winter.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

Torqueing down the cylinders should not distort them if they are in the plates when the cylinders are finished at the factory. If you measure a cylinder that you have not put in the plates it could be out of round. IMHO they should NEVER be tapered in or out of the plates. It seems the Motor Company can distribute this junk and expect us to buy it and be happy with some Chinese product. I'm still waiting on my Dealer to call me and let me know where we stand on my cylinders. At this point I really don't care if I end up building a 113 or a 117 motor. I really don't think there will be much difference in a 113 with 10.5 to pistons or a 117 that has 9.9 to 1 pistons. I actually prefer the dome pistons in my build.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[dnlpnd]

Torqueing down the cylinders should not distort them if they are in the plates when the cylinders are finished at the factory. If you measure a cylinder that you have not put in the plates it could be out of round. IMHO they should NEVER be tapered in or out of the plates. It seems the Motor Company can distribute this junk and expect us to buy it and be happy with some Chinese product. I'm still waiting on my Dealer to call me and let me know where we stand on my cylinders. At this point I really don't care if I end up building a 113 or a 117 motor. I really don't think there will be much difference in a 113 with 10.5 to pistons or a 117 that has 9.9 to 1 pistons. I actually prefer the dome pistons in my build.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Just think what a 10.8:1 117 will do?  Lots of ways to get there WITHOUT domed pistons 

dnlpnd

[Yellow09SERG]

At this point I really don't care if I end up building a 113 or a 117 motor. I really don't think there will be much difference in a 113 with 10.5 to pistons or a 117 that has 9.9 to 1 pistons. I actually prefer the dome pistons in my build.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Think there is a lot of truth in what you said there Dawg. 113 has been a proven platform for several years now and seems to be performing and lasting very well. My heads left today for Sachs to be worked over and set up for use on a 113 24D build. I know you had mentioned the 24D in one of the post so if I get mine together before you get a direction on 113 or 117, I would be more than happy  to share the results with you

[Unbalanced]

 

Just think what a 10.8:1 117 will do?  Lots of ways to get there WITHOUT domed pistons 

dnlpnd

   


I am really curious now what will 10.8:1 117 build do ....   What cam, what squish, what seat pressures, what throttlebody, what exhaust, 0 deck?  whose headwork, what pistons, who is tuning it or is it a canned map?   The supporting cast is as or more important than the compression as a package vs. off the shelf bolt in and just adding compression. 

[Unbalanced]

Think there is a lot of truth in what you said there Dawg. 113 has been a proven platform for several years now and seems to be performing and lasting very well. My heads left today for Sachs to be worked over and set up for use on a 113 24D build. I know you had mentioned the 24D in one of the post so if I get mine together before you get a direction on 113 or 117, I would be more than happy  to share the results with you

Yellow09SERG that package should run real strong for you.   What compression are you shooting for 10.6 to 1 ? 

[Yellow09SERG]

Yellow09SERG that package should run real strong for you.   What compression are you shooting for 10.6 to 1 ?

Wanting to end up between 195 to 200 max CCP so no PMS issues. I woulds say your real close there. That is about what I  get running it through the calculator. Figure where it actually ends will be up to John, he seems to know that cam very well

[Unbalanced]

My guess would be max of 194 CCP that is about as high as he typically goes for a street bike.  He doesn't want you or him to deal with a PMS motor.   That 24d runs real good at the 10.6 range.   Have you checked how far your pistons are in the hole?   Helpful to know when setting the squish.

[Yellow09SERG]

My guess would be max of 194 CCP that is about as high as he typically goes for a street bike he don't want you or him to have to deal with a PMS motor.   That 24d runs real good at the 10.6 range.   Have you checked how far your pistons are in the hole?   Real good thing to know when setting the squish.

No I haven't and probably will be to late to correct it once I get the chance to. Bike is still together and the way the weather is here it is getting to haul my butt to work every day. John has or will have my spare heads and I have a spare set of jugs that I am having bored at a local indy. I know my method is flawed and out of order. Just not sure how to get it in order with out loosing the bike for a month.

[Unbalanced]

Tough call there you most likely have to live with close vs. dead on.   Pistons prolly 4-8 in the whole so if you set up with a .030 you will be .034-.038 squish with the flat top piston.   

[dnlpnd]

I am really curious now what will 10.8:1 117 build do ....   What cam, what squish, what seat pressures, what throttlebody, what exhaust, 0 deck?  whose headwork, what pistons, who is tuning it or is it a canned map?   The supporting cast is as or more important than the compression as a package vs. off the shelf bolt in and just adding compression.

I am still working some things out, but I can tell you the following:  GMR-600, assume piston is -0.004”, 0.036" squish, Cometic 0.030" HG, cranking compression 205 psi, AV&V 0.650" lift springs, SE Pro 58mm intake, SE 5.3 injectors, Jackpot 2-1-2 exhaust, Paul Yaffe Monsta 45s, Ward's CNC Headwork, 4.125" flattops in the kit (assume piston is -2 cc), AIM clutch springs, SE Cam plate and oil pump, Zipper's cam chain tensioner w/Axtel bypass, SE high capacity oil pan, will be using existing PV with Pro AT tuned on a dyno.

dnlpnd

[Yellow09SERG]

Tough call there you most likely have to live with close vs. dead on.   Pistons prolly 4-8 in the whole so if you set up with a .030 you will be .034-.038 squish with the flat top piston.   

Question??? With the open chamber of the 110 head how much realize difference is there in ending up with a .030 squish and say .040 squish if the object CCP is reached? I know there was quite a difference in the old closed chamber heads. Is .030 still the gospel on the open chambers