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[FlaHeatWave]

I agree. The S&S pump and plate are the best thing out there at this time...

I feel the same way about most, if not all of their product line...

My experiences with S&S are that they stand behind their products.

[Ridgerunr]

2015 RGS, stock pump and plate, 18 psi hot idle, 32 psi hot cruising. I see no need for aftermarket plates and pumps in the majority of street driven motors. You might be a tad faster with the aftermarket stuff........a/c your wallet will be lighter.   

[grc]

2015 RGS, stock pump and plate, 18 psi hot idle, 32 psi hot cruising. I see no need for aftermarket plates and pumps in the majority of street driven motors. You might be a tad faster with the aftermarket stuff........a/c your wallet will be lighter. 

Shhhhhh!   You might screw up sales for all those folks hawking those "racing" pumps and plates.  I'm sure you wouldn't want to be responsible for companies like Fueling losing sales and money.

Assuming a stock pump that isn't damaged or worn, there should be no oil pressure issues.  Most of the low pressure at idle concerns can be traced back to the lousy bypass valve and seat (heaven forbid Harley ever fix their poor quality).  There should be NO oil bypassed at idle, and yet many do in fact bypass.  I'm guessing a person could fix a leaking bypass for one heck of a lot less cash than buying any of those aftermarket "racing" products.

JMHO - Jerry

[HD Street Performance]

Drag Specialties have a sales force that will beg shops to sell Revolution Performance and Feuling Products. Sell enough and they send you all sorts of perks.
The shops that push that stuff are usually Drag dealers.

I recommend stock harley pumps and plates for most builds.
Even the guru SME Dan Thayer will tell you that over 35# oil pressure on a twin cam is a waste of horsepower and they run their Bonneville bike at 20 WOT for 5 miles. Of course street riding and idling in traffic is another issue but the stock setup works fine.
I do recommend that guys check their relief valve and buy a Baisley replacement if the machined face is rough. Also nothing wrong with checking the tip in and full relief pressures.
All out motors get S&S pumps with relief pressure set at 38# which has no effect on idle pressure

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

But you are dealing with our plate or a few.. I test each and every cam plate and many are not sealing well, can you mod the plate sure but what about lack of rigidity , I mean of course the stock stuff works but not all of them work to 100% . Most will never know , but if you want to improve upon the stock oiling system you can.  That is my point ,

[hrdtail78]

Shhhhhh!   You might screw up sales for all those folks hawking those "racing" pumps and plates.  I'm sure you wouldn't want to be responsible for companies like Fueling losing sales and money.

Assuming a stock pump that isn't damaged or worn, there should be no oil pressure issues.  Most of the low pressure at idle concerns can be traced back to the lousy bypass valve and seat (heaven forbid Harley ever fix their poor quality).  There should be NO oil bypassed at idle, and yet many do in fact bypass.  I'm guessing a person could fix a leaking bypass for one heck of a lot less cash than buying any of those aftermarket "racing" products.

JMHO - Jerry

I have a question about this.  Let's say a 06 touring model comes in with low oil pressure.  I get a ground plunger, I test and set your pressure with my test gauge by stretching that spring or shimming.  I even lap the seat.  I put it all back together and put the bike through cold and fully warmed up test.

A couple different results after the 4-5 hours of labor I just spent.  Stock Y-pipes can be a mother.

1.  No impact and no effect.  No change in pressure at all. 

2.  Pressure raised a bit but after putting 5000 miles on the pressure dropped because the spring lost the stretch I put in it.

Have I just married myself to your problem?  I'm I responsible for the problem after it popped back up?  Do you think that customer should be pushed to the front of the line?  I'm I out of line to still want to get paid for the time I spent?  Even though the end result is it didn't fix your problem?  Sometimes a sale is made not only because it is a better part, but in the long run.  It can be cheaper to spend the money now on a part than to pay me for doing the job twice and loosing out on the riding time.

I'm asking this not to argue.  I really would like feedback.  There is no training for this.  This isn't covered in a Bradshaw book.  When things like this do pop up.  I talk to different shops and get input, but the final call is always a tough one.  The best transaction are always the ones where both parties feel like they got a fair deal.

I understand that there are crooked shops that will try and milk every last nickel.  I also understand that there are crooked customers that always try and get something for nothing. 

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

I think that the issue is the you have a few DIY guys vs guys that build 100+ engines a year and have done so for years on end . This equal's massive amount of data.. We see things that other will not , so when one guy says " well I did it and it works no reason it will not "  well thats one guy or a few guys ..  shops see issues with things that really should not happen but they do. So now we are stuck with dealing with it..

This happened to me last year.. Guy had oiling issues install a LMR spring to raise the pressure.. OK I test the plate its "like" stock so it all goes back together then he calls me to tell me that after 1800, miles on the build it has low oil pressure and then tells me about the issues he had long before we ever did anything...  So now he expects a deal on the new parts..     To me if a stock part is all ready acting up then toss it.. Myself so not longer install the springs or shims, axtell bypass ( which by the way have seen more than one of those create ZERO oil pressure or huge fluctuation's.. Sure there is a fix but the point is the plate had issue and the bypass was not seating properly ) .. If you cannot get it to work right from the start what is the point , I have installed those band aids , and when something goes wrong we are left holding the bag. SO now its simple leave it stock or upgrade it..   

Again to be clear I have no issues with stock items but they are stock and do not work as well as the S&S kit.. that a fact . but for that upgrade comes a cost .. That's up to the owner to decide if HE feels its worth the money. 

[Ridgerunr]

Is is worth it to get a cam plate when doing a cam up grade. i have a 2015 cvo street glide.

A couple of you are doing apples/oranges. The original post says nothing of pressure issues (by the way it's under warranty if did). The majority of TC's, even when increased in cu. in. and compression have no issues with the OE plate/pump. Late model equipment have higher idle pressure, and I've not heard here or other tech sites about bypass problems for late models. If a guy has pressure problems and wants to spend the xtra coin for aftermarket, go for it. I've got a really pretty Delkron plate from 2004 that can be had for a fraction of what I paid for it. 

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

It may not be completely on target but it  does have it merits..  Warranty well ok that is not set in stone for all its up to you if you use the factor or not ..  as for the OP   " it is worth it" well I fell the topic has been well discussed . Up to him at this point.

[hrdtail78]

With the whole is it worth it or not.  I wonder what peoples findings' on the scavenge side is.  What different vacuum they have seen pulled by hooking up a vacuum gauge to the crank cavity sump with different pumps and plates?  Or are all opinions given based on indicated pressure and oil temp gauge in tank?

 

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Jason good point , THe one we swapped out due to the customer not telling us on the issues he had up front.. We put back on the dyno to test .. Id did in fact produce more power, weather was very close to the same so did the pump pulling more oil off the crank do it , more than one way but was pretty cool to see it.. Would like to do a back to back but time and such I doubt it will happen

[hrdtail78]

I'm kind of light duty right now.  Just taking my time and getting done with what I can.  I have a 2015 wet head ultra I just installed cam/ lifter, and inner bearings.  I will try and get some baseline.  Next one on the schedule has the S&S pump and plate.  I'm sure it will take more than just testing one a piece to get a trend, but lets see what comes of it.

I also have a bare case and I have always wanted to test the theory of 6 oz.  I have wanted to see how much it takes to fill the sump to the amount that actually drains out.

[FlaHeatWave]

Steve, Jason, thank you for the unbiased real world feedback...

In this day and time, Folks like you ( particularly Indy's) can get caught between the customer, internet hype, and (Harley aftermarket) companies that will not stand behind their products... I do not envy you in the least...

[GMR-PERFORMANCE]

Always more sides to the issue than many think.. It may or may not be about " works vs need"  As we build 100 plus engines a year with stock pump and plate. And yes we see oil pressure issues can you blame the pump or plate well its a low cost cast item.. Its not made to be the best but just do the job within reason.. So what you have 4 psi of oil pressure at idle.. Is the light on , no well no problem found is how the ticket gets handled ..  But we know that its not the best to have that low of pressure as well running high pressure is just as bad as its costing you HP, decreasing MPG , etc .. SO really you want 10-15 at idle and maybe 35-40 peak cold & hot  ..  Well S&S can deliver just that.. But it comes at a cost.. Some are willing to upgrade to a better set up others are not..    Hell look at TV's today if you do not have a 70 inch HD yada yada its old news Why well its simple because we can.. No one  need's a harley we have one as we want one..   Its not practical in any way they do not get killer MPG,  cost for the unit plus maintenance puts them in the luxury classification  .. 

But we love them and if we can upgrade them we do ..   

[hrchdog]

I'm kind of light duty right now.  Just taking my time and getting done with what I can.  I have a 2015 wet head ultra I just installed cam/ lifter, and inner bearings. I will try and get some baseline.  Next one on the schedule has the S&S pump and plate.  I'm sure it will take more than just testing one a piece to get a trend, but lets see what comes of it.

I also have a bare case and I have always wanted to test the theory of 6 oz.  I have wanted to see how much it takes to fill the sump to the amount that actually drains out.

That would be mine, I got to try it out this morning Jason and all I can say is WOW! definite improvement bike runs awesome.