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[Singlebeam]

Completed Stage 3/117 Kit with D&D 2 into 1 and Ghost Pipe.  Hope to have baseline Dyno numbers soon.  After heads coming off to Flow Bench baseline then clean up and install Woods WM8-9F60 Cam, BW-4V Springs,  Alpha Series M8-1012 Roller Lifters, and HPI Throttle Body...Then will see what the 4V can really do..

Any chance of hearing a sound clip of the D&D?. I have had 2 of the fatcats and love the sound. Just wondering how it sounds on the M8

[Scott7d]

Unless Harley has 114 " and 117" dyno sheets already, there won't be a dyno sheet. I am not doing a dyno.

I'm going to feel like an idiot if I am misunderstanding. Do you mean that you are getting stage 3 work and not having the bike tuned afterwards?

[Singlebeam]

I'm going to feel like an idiot if I am misunderstanding. Do you mean that you are getting stage 3 work and not having the bike tuned afterwards?

Have a sest which is how they tuned it. Just not doing a dyno.

[SDCVO]

Have a sest which is how they tuned it. Just not doing a dyno.

X2

[Scott7d]

Whew, it's confirmed. I'm an idiot.  I still don't get it.  So not tuning the bike, they are just flashing a new map with the SEST?

Really not trying to be a smart ass. Still trying to learn all this stuff. Didn't know the bike could be tuned and not use dyno?

[grc]

Whew, it's confirmed. I'm an idiot.  I still don't get it.  So not tuning the bike, they are just flashing a new map with the SEST?

Really not trying to be a smart ass. Still trying to learn all this stuff. Didn't know the bike could be tuned and not use dyno?

Harley has a street legal canned map (tune) that goes with the Stage III kit.  That is what they did with the Street Tuner.  Is it as good as a good custom tune from an excellent tuner?  Probably not, but there again the tune that comes with ALL new vehicles is also just a canned tune.  Think of this particular situation as what you would get if Harley built a Stage III at the factory and sold it to you.  The obvious reason for not doing a custom tune is that doing so would void the warranty.  Considering this is a new and so far unproven engine with performance modifications, it makes sense to not throw the warranty out the window right from the beginning.

JMHO - Jerry

[Singlebeam]

After I get it broke in good and Am convinced everything is going to be ok. I will get the exhaust I want, which will not be warranty friendly. I will also retune with a power vision, another warranty no-no. Still will not do a dyno.

[BigLew55]

Harley has a street legal canned map (tune) that goes with the Stage III kit.  That is what they did with the Street Tuner.  Is it as good as a good custom tune from an excellent tuner?  Probably not, but there again the tune that comes with ALL new vehicles is also just a canned tune.  Think of this particular situation as what you would get if Harley built a Stage III at the factory and sold it to you.  The obvious reason for not doing a custom tune is that doing so would void the warranty.  Considering this is a new and so far unproven engine with performance modifications, it makes sense to not throw the warranty out the window right from the beginning.

JMHO - Jerry

I'm going to use this in my signature line on every forum that I am registered on....

Not really, but damn, everyone needs to read your post.

[timo482]

the days of doing cams, air, pipes, tune - and still getting warranty coverage on the engine appear to be over.

if you can afford to not care at all about warranty then the sky has always been the limit. as for me i usually stay very close to stock and have been rewarded with few major problems. but having my hobby be my home machine shop - i do make some unusual parts, but not usually for the power train. then again i still have my home made special tools for my shovel head - and that has been gone for 25 years.... *sigh*

times change

[grc]

the days of doing cams, air, pipes, tune - and still getting warranty coverage on the engine appear to be over.

...

times change

This will be viewed negatively by many I'm sure, but there is an upside to this crackdown by the EPA that I've been preaching about for ten years.  The previous models from Harley NEEDED mods from day one to just make the bikes run acceptably.  Stumbles, stalls, flat spots, etc. have been the norm for a very long time.  Harley didn't correct these things, even though they could have done so fairly easily, because they made big bucks selling customers modifications and kits to fix the problems.  Now that Harley has finally been told to stop violating the law, they will have to do the same thing the auto companies did decades ago to eliminate all the driveability problems their early attempts at emission controls created.  Modern cars and trucks run more smoothly and more powerfully than the cars of the muscle car era, without polluting the environment.  There is no reason Harley couldn't do the same thing with their motorcycles.  From what I've been hearing and reading about the new M8, it appears they finally got the message.  The new bikes seem to run fine right off the showroom floor.  Yes, the exhaust sound isn't what most like, and there will always be those who are never satisfied with the amount of power their bike or car produces.  But at least now people won't have to pay the old "Harley Tax" just to get a new bike to run properly.

JMHO - Jerry

[SDCVO]

This will be viewed negatively by many I'm sure, but there is an upside to this crackdown by the EPA that I've been preaching about for ten years.  The previous models from Harley NEEDED mods from day one to just make the bikes run acceptably.  Stumbles, stalls, flat spots, etc. have been the norm for a very long time.  Harley didn't correct these things, even though they could have done so fairly easily, because they made big bucks selling customers modifications and kits to fix the problems.  Now that Harley has finally been told to stop violating the law, they will have to do the same thing the auto companies did decades ago to eliminate all the driveability problems their early attempts at emission controls created.  Modern cars and trucks run more smoothly and more powerfully than the cars of the muscle car era, without polluting the environment.  There is no reason Harley couldn't do the same thing with their motorcycles.  From what I've been hearing and reading about the new M8, it appears they finally got the message.  The new bikes seem to run fine right off the showroom floor.  Yes, the exhaust sound isn't what most like, and there will always be those who are never satisfied with the amount of power their bike or car produces.  But at least now people won't have to pay the old "Harley Tax" just to get a new bike to run properly.

JMHO - Jerry

I have really struggled with keeping my bike basically stock (except the stage 3 117 kit and CFR slip ons) as I have changed every bike I have ever owned sometimes even before I even take delivery. I bought the 7 yr extended warranty and I really want to to be able to use it if I need it. I agree with what your saying about how they used to run stock (my 96 softail could barely make it up the freeway grade before I did my thing) and the new motor. Obviously doing the 117 kit gave it "much more" but even before I did that I was surprised how well the new motor ran. I definitely could not stand how it sounded and even now with the CFR slip ons I am not totally satisfied with the sound at idle due to the cat but i keep telling myself I have no choice unless I want to risk the warranty which I don't want to do.
To be honest Im not sure if my struggle is more in head than in my "butt dyno". With the 117 kit the bike really runs strong and I will admit its nice not having to worry about pinging, lugging the motor, etc. My other bike has a 124 in it and of course I love the performance (back to my changing every bike I have ever had) but no doubt I have to "work it" when riding as it really doesn't like to be "down low" in the revs and definitely will ping when hot. I certainly have had my motor issues with that bike and as I write this I am waiting for my new 124 to come in next week as I blew up the last one (not my fault) which replaced a 120r that I blew up before that (probably was my fault..).
One thing I know for sure, not doing all the motor/exhaust mods I usually do is definitely saving me a bunch of money so maybe in the end this might not be that bad??