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Author Topic: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump  (Read 13055 times)

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CVOhog1

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Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« on: September 28, 2017, 09:28:57 PM »

For those with doubts, this is a real problem.

I have a 2017 CVO SG, early model year production with 3200 mile on it.

When the bike had about 2800 miles on it I started to notice that on longer rides it would get extremely hot, sluggish and loose power. I also noticed a smell of hot oil. The tone of the engine changed.

I had heard about this sumping/oil pump issue so I started watching the oil level closely.

Went on a ride a couple of days ago, checked the oil level prior to the trip and it showed full on the dip stick. About 100 miles in, the bike again got very hot, became sluggish and smelled of oil. Friends I was riding with commented that on a couple of red light stops when I accelerated they noticed a cloud of blue smoke from my exhaust.

I stopped at a dealership close by and checked my oil, the dip stick showed the bike was at least a quart low. I thought, no way did I burn a quart of oil in 165 miles. I added about a 1/2 quart just to be safe and rode home. The bike ran very hot all the way home. Oil pressure indicator always showed oil pressure OK, never got a check oil light.

By the way the service manager at this dealership immediately asked me what tune I had on the bike and said that was most likely my issue. BS, I knew it was sumping. He said they have not had any bikes with that issue.

I checked the oil when I got home and the dipstick now showed the oil level was high.

Long story short, Bike is at the dealer now, They followed the service bulletin (1450). Found excessive oil in the crank. They torn it down. Bad oil pump, scoured front cylinder and piston.

Harley is covering repairs under warranty.

This oil pump issue is a real problem. MCO should be issuing a recall. 

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2017, 09:37:35 PM »

For those with doubts, this is a real problem.

I have a 2017 CVO SG, early model year production with 3200 mile on it.

When the bike had about 2800 miles on it I started to notice that on longer rides it would get extremely hot, sluggish and loose power. I also noticed a smell of hot oil. The tone of the engine changed.

I had heard about this sumping/oil pump issue so I started watching the oil level closely.

Went on a ride a couple of days ago, checked the oil level prior to the trip and it showed full on the dip stick. About 100 miles in, the bike again got very hot, became sluggish and smelled of oil. Friends I was riding with commented that on a couple of red light stops when I accelerated they noticed a cloud of blue smoke from my exhaust.

I stopped at a dealership close by and checked my oil, the dip stick showed the bike was at least a quart low. I thought, no way did I burn a quart of oil in 165 miles. I added about a 1/2 quart just to be safe and rode home. The bike ran very hot all the way home. Oil pressure indicator always showed oil pressure OK, never got a check oil light.

By the way the service manager at this dealership immediately asked me what tune I had on the bike and said that was most likely my issue. BS, I knew it was sumping. He said they have not had any bikes with that issue.

I checked the oil when I got home and the dipstick now showed the oil level was high.

Long story short, Bike is at the dealer now, They followed the service bulletin (1450). Found excessive oil in the crank. They torn it down. Bad oil pump, scoured front cylinder and piston.

Harley is covering repairs under warranty.

This oil pump issue is a real problem. MCO should be issuing a recall. 



Sounds all too familiar!
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2017, 10:15:37 PM »

It took, what, a 3rd version to finally get the twin cam right.  Unfortunate but not unprecedented.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2017, 10:48:39 PM »

I have a 2017 CVO Street Glide with a production date of 5/17.  Does anyone know if this late production date will have the most recent oil pump?

Thanks,

Ralph
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2017, 10:57:15 PM »

I have a 2017 CVO Street Glide with a production date of 5/17.  Does anyone know if this late production date will have the most recent oil pump?

Thanks,

Ralph

Definitely not.
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divedolphin

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2017, 12:56:07 PM »

As previously stated, I have a 2017 CVO Street Glide with a production date of 5/17.  What should I look for other than the obvious engine oil light or check pressure message to determine if I have a faulty oil pump.  I was at my dealer last weekend and asked him about the issue. The service advisor told me not to worry. They have 14 dealerships and have replaced only one (1) oil pump on a very early release of the 2017 CVO.

I have only added about 4 ounces of oil in over 400 miles and the dipstick looks like the oil level is consistent after each ride.

Thanks,

Ralph
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2017, 07:23:58 AM »

My ‘17 CVO was serviced at a dealer/1K Service. 2,200 miles later, just outside a dealership, my oil light came on at 3200 miles.

Stopped into the service department and they suggested adding a quart of oil-I did, and no issue again (but I put the dealer who did 1K on notice). Then, 1000 miles later, the engine light came on. Took it to a dealer to get checked, and they noted the code that occurred at 3,200 miles.

Now at 5,700 miles, and no issue popped up again—will keep a close eye on this based on your post.

I’ve never had to add a quart of oil on any Harley I’ve owned over the past 7 years—regularly serviced.

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2017, 08:33:12 AM »

My ‘17 CVO was serviced at a dealer/1K Service. 2,200 miles later, just outside a dealership, my oil light came on at 3200 miles.

Stopped into the service department and they suggested adding a quart of oil-I did, and no issue again (but I put the dealer who did 1K on notice). Then, 1000 miles later, the engine light came on. Took it to a dealer to get checked, and they noted the code that occurred at 3,200 miles.

Now at 5,700 miles, and no issue popped up again—will keep a close eye on this based on your post.

I’ve never had to add a quart of oil on any Harley I’ve owned over the past 7 years—regularly serviced.

Do you check the oil level with the dipstick on a regular basis, or just wait for the oil light to come on?  Harley's aren't like many modern cars, you still have to check the motor oil for proper level on a regular basis.  By the time the oil light comes on, you could be doing serious damage.

Jerry
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2017, 08:50:33 PM »

For those with doubts, this is a real problem.

I have a 2017 CVO SG, early model year production with 3200 mile on it.

When the bike had about 2800 miles on it I started to notice that on longer rides it would get extremely hot, sluggish and loose power. I also noticed a smell of hot oil. The tone of the engine changed.

I had heard about this sumping/oil pump issue so I started watching the oil level closely.

Went on a ride a couple of days ago, checked the oil level prior to the trip and it showed full on the dip stick. About 100 miles in, the bike again got very hot, became sluggish and smelled of oil. Friends I was riding with commented that on a couple of red light stops when I accelerated they noticed a cloud of blue smoke from my exhaust.

I stopped at a dealership close by and checked my oil, the dip stick showed the bike was at least a quart low. I thought, no way did I burn a quart of oil in 165 miles. I added about a 1/2 quart just to be safe and rode home. The bike ran very hot all the way home. Oil pressure indicator always showed oil pressure OK, never got a check oil light.

By the way the service manager at this dealership immediately asked me what tune I had on the bike and said that was most likely my issue. BS, I knew it was sumping. He said they have not had any bikes with that issue.

I checked the oil when I got home and the dipstick now showed the oil level was high.

Long story short, Bike is at the dealer now, They followed the service bulletin (1450). Found excessive oil in the crank. They torn it down. Bad oil pump, scoured front cylinder and piston.

Harley is covering repairs under warranty.

This oil pump issue is a real problem. MCO should be issuing a recall.
Unless the govt requires it for safety (highly unlikely), don't look for the MoCo to issue a recall.  They're already in profit trouble, so a recall would further hurt their bottom line.  The bean-counters will rule here.  They'll compare the cost of recalling every affected bike vs repairing only those still under warranty that are likely to be brought in.  I imagine the "recall" option will lose.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2017, 11:53:04 AM by Mark »
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CVOhog1

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #9 on: October 05, 2017, 02:01:59 PM »

Mark,
I agree that the moco will try to skate by this issue in the hopes that the bad oil pumps will hold out until after the warranty period is up on the affected bikes. I know alot of people who have 2017 touring bikes who are nervous about how long theirs will hold out. So much for stepping up and doing the right thing. In the meantime, my bike, like many others sit on a lift at the dealership in pieces and I miss out on some premium riding weather. I guess $37,000 also buys some inconvenience.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2017, 02:17:37 PM »

Look at how the '99-06 situation played out.

Original oil pumps we're a weak design for both oil pressure and scavenging.  Alot of stock bikes blew oil out the breathers from new.  The camplates also had a design flaw where the chain tensioners fail anywhere between 15k-30k and trash the engine.  MoCo tells us 1-quart of oil consumption every 3kmiles is perfectly normal.

2008 they introduce a SE kit with better oil pump and chain tensioners.  Parts and labor in the neighborhood of $1k.  Engines still blowing oil though.

2010 an updated SE kit with better yet oil pump.  Finally got a handle on the oil blowing out the breathers.  Another $1k please.

Not a single recall here.  Consumer's responsibility to pay to fix their design flaw.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2017, 02:37:00 PM »

Look at how the '99-06 situation played out.

Original oil pumps we're a weak design for both oil pressure and scavenging.  Alot of stock bikes blew oil out the breathers from new.  The camplates also had a design flaw where the chain tensioners fail anywhere between 15k-30k and trash the engine.  MoCo tells us 1-quart of oil consumption every 3kmiles is perfectly normal.

2008 2007 they introduce a SE kit with better oil pump and chain tensioners.  Parts and labor in the neighborhood of $1k.  Engines still blowing oil though.

2010 an updated SE kit with better yet oil pump.  Finally got a handle on the oil blowing out the breathers.  Another $1k please.

Not a single recall here.  Consumer's responsibility to pay to fix their design flaw.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2017, 02:42:12 PM »

2008, 2007...whatever.  Point is, HD didn't address the problem for 8 years and didn't get it right the first time.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2017, 03:40:16 PM »

2008, 2007...whatever.  Point is, HD didn't address the problem for 8 years and didn't get it right the first time.
Not picking at you. I agree with you by the way. It's awful the MOCO short changes the faithful owners to make the stock holders happy. After all we just want to ride and enjoy our bikes worry free and not be haunted with issues. Every once in awhile you do run into someone that has been problem free. Trouble is there are more short HD straws than long. Good luck to you sir.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2017, 03:44:37 PM »

No worries, no offense taken  :daisy:
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2017, 05:04:14 PM »

Instead of using the word Recall, they used the word Campaign a number of times.  :huepfenlol2:
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2017, 07:40:58 PM »

Instead of using the word Recall, they used the word Campaign a number of times.  :huepfenlol2:

"Product Enhancement" was the term they came up with when they could not keep head gaskets from blowing and valves from sticking back in 2007...  "Recall" is not in the MOCO dictionary...
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2017, 08:06:02 PM »

My pump went out after only 800 miles.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2017, 08:54:14 PM »

Are the new pumps holding up? I have read a number of posts on this forum as well as other forums where people have had multiple pumps fail.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #19 on: October 05, 2017, 09:00:55 PM »

Are these M8 pumps actually "physically" failing somehow of just another crap design?  I have not yet seen one of these confirmed sumpers removed.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2017, 09:19:50 PM »

I have yet to hear what the actual differences are between the various design oil pumps...  Anyone have any pictures of design version 1, 2 and 3 oil pump?
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2017, 09:29:41 PM »

Not sure about the M8 but here is some info on the TC oil pump evolution:

Oil flow and scavenging (per H-D):
1. stock (oil pump #26035-99B) to 96ci (oil pump #16037-06) = +8% flow & +22% scavenging
2. 96ci (oil pump #16037-06) to Screamin' Eagle (oil pump #62400001) = +16% flow & +29% scavenging
3. stock (oil pump #26035-99B) to Screamin' Eagle (oil pump #62400001) = +23% flow & +50% scavenging
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2017, 09:36:40 PM »

I have yet to hear what the actual differences are between the various design oil pumps...  Anyone have any pictures of design version 1, 2 and 3 oil pump?

Nor I.  Yet to see a single design brief, review doc nor anything else that actually documents anything other than "different."  Hard to get the warm fuzzies when the company passing the dong says "puff puff" but won't say what's in the bowl.

Not sure about the M8 but here is some info on the TC oil pump evolution:

Oil flow and scavenging (per H-D):
1. stock (oil pump #26035-99B) to 96ci (oil pump #16037-06) = +8% flow & +22% scavenging
2. 96ci (oil pump #16037-06) to Screamin' Eagle (oil pump #62400001) = +16% flow & +29% scavenging
3. stock (oil pump #26035-99B) to Screamin' Eagle (oil pump #62400001) = +23% flow & +50% scavenging

..and have no clue what the parts iteration from an entirely different engine tells us.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2017, 09:38:29 PM »

It tells me that Harley has a history of oil pump design issues with emphasis on scavenging.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2017, 09:50:14 PM »


Can't help but wonder if the issue isn't the same one seen on the 2007 and later Twin Cams, excessive pinion shaft runout.  I haven't seen any information indicating they changed the design or production tooling and process for the M8.

I'd still love to know why the problem becomes worse after installing a performance kit.  Very slight increase in displacement shouldn't make any difference to the oil pump, perhaps running higher rpm with the kit cams could cause more oil to pool in the crankcase but I doubt it.  Nothing about this issue makes sense, and unfortunately it is highly unlikely H-D will ever explain what's going on.

Jerry
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2017, 09:51:49 PM »

It tells me that Harley has a history of oil pump design issues with emphasis on scavenging.


Maybe.  But there is more than 15 years between the efforts.  So not just different design effort but different generations of design engineers and likely even corporate processes.  If anything it tells me the company can't master a relatively simple system that the rest of the automotive industry had for generations; and that they are, almost willfully, willing to compound the problem by not isolating and then correcting it in a major evolutionary redesign of the product.  Or, to put it differently, it's not a design problem at all.  It's an illustration of an industrial and corporate carelessness that is simply stunning in the nature of its repetition.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #26 on: October 07, 2017, 10:49:14 PM »

My oil pump is being replaced on my 2017 CVO Street Glide after a big 1200 miles.  What other damage should they be looking for because of this failure?
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2017, 08:18:45 PM »

For starters, the dealer should do a compression leak down. That would show any potential scouring of the cylinders. They should also check the smoothness of the crack turning. 
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2017, 08:54:01 AM »

My oil pump is being replaced on my 2017 CVO Street Glide after a big 1200 miles.  What other damage should they be looking for because of this failure?

How did it "fail", as in what were the circumstances?  Did you actually lose all oil pressure, or did you have it checked for sumping and they found it to be out-of-spec, or  :nixweiss:

Jerry
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2017, 02:45:21 PM »

My pump turned the oil light in at idle. The new pump has worked with no problems for 14,200 miles.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2017, 08:11:04 PM »

I picked up my bike tonight from the dealer, oil pump replaced with PN62400182, cylinders and pistons replaced. Bike seemed to run good on the 10 mile ride home. Hope to get the new top end broken by the weekend. Keeping my fingers crossed that my issues are over.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2017, 03:21:11 AM »

I picked up my bike tonight from the dealer, oil pump replaced with PN62400182, cylinders and pistons replaced. Bike seemed to run good on the 10 mile ride home. Hope to get the new top end broken by the weekend. Keeping my fingers crossed that my issues are over.
Careful what you wish for.   ;)
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2017, 12:32:12 PM »

Hi all, i’ve been following this thread with a lot of interest, but will show my ignorance... is there a better oil pump for the and would i be invalidating the warranty if i were to replace it on my ‘17 cvo limited? Thanks


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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2017, 04:57:19 PM »

Hi all, i’ve been following this thread with a lot of interest, but will show my ignorance... is there a better oil pump for the and would i be invalidating the warranty if i were to replace it on my ‘17 cvo limited? Thanks


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I don't know if the aftermarket has released any M8 oil pumps yet, but if they do and you install one your factory warranty will not cover any failures they can blame on that non-OEM oil pump.  That applies to pretty much any parts btw, other than general maintenance items like oil and filters.

Jerry
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2017, 09:16:57 PM »

Thank you Jerry.


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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2017, 01:45:59 PM »

So my riding buddy’s 2017 road-glide went to the shop with a bad oil pump ( 3000 miles). Harley informed the dealer to tear down the motor to see if there was as damage caused by the low oil pressure. Waiting for the verdict. The original oil pump on the m8 was a bad design.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2017, 03:41:42 PM »

They found metal shavings stuck in the oil pump, in the pan and top end damage. The dealer is  asking Harley to authorize a engine replacement. Ridiculous in a new 2017 road glide with 3000 miles on the motor.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2017, 08:05:48 PM »

They found metal shavings stuck in the oil pump, in the pan and top end damage. The dealer is  asking Harley to authorize a engine replacement. Ridiculous in a new 2017 road glide with 3000 miles on the motor.

Yep.  Seems the MoCo can't, for whatever reason, get it together on new model/engine releases.  With BMW, Indian, Yamaha, etc, nipping at their heels, you'd think they could make an oil pump that works. 
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2017, 08:40:57 PM »

Instead the first thing they do is check for an "illegal" tune to void their warranty liability.  :soapbox:
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #39 on: October 19, 2017, 02:34:04 PM »

Has anyone noticed that Fueling has M8 oil pumps on their website?

http://www.feulingparts.com/category/Oil%20Pumps/Milwaukee%20Eight%2017
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #40 on: October 19, 2017, 02:43:14 PM »

Nor I.  Yet to see a single design brief, review doc nor anything else that actually documents anything other than "different."  Hard to get the warm fuzzies when the company passing the dong says "puff puff" but won't say what's in the bowl.

..and have no clue what the parts iteration from an entirely different engine tells us.
Good one  :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2: :huepfenlol2:
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #41 on: October 19, 2017, 03:21:32 PM »

Has anyone noticed that Fueling has M8 oil pumps on their website?

http://www.feulingparts.com/category/Oil%20Pumps/Milwaukee%20Eight%2017

Yes, and the prices are all set at "$0".  There are some differences in each pump. 
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2017, 05:35:30 PM »

Have a buddy with a 2107 cvo street glide Just fried the 3rd motor it had the new oil pump,Has the stage 4 117 kit on all 3 motors. 2 sheared cam bolts on first 2 motors all 3 have been having problems right around 1,100 miles on them and fail.
He is not a happy camper.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2017, 07:04:45 PM »

Yes, and the prices are all set at "$0".  There are some differences in each pump.

Prices escalate rapidly when they start throwing around words like "billet".  Add in some fancy red anodizing, and the required Fueling cam plate, and I'm guessing the total price will be over a grand.  But as you noted, right now all three versions of the pump appear to be free, the cam plates are $300 and $380.

Jerry
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2017, 09:33:06 PM »

Has anyone noticed that Fueling has M8 oil pumps on their website?

http://www.feulingparts.com/category/Oil%20Pumps/Milwaukee%20Eight%2017

So with all of the problems with HD pumps. has anyone tried one of these? And if so, do they have the same issues? Just a thought! Maybe they know how to make em’.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2017, 09:39:57 PM »

Does anyone really know what the problem with the OEM pump is yet?  Bad design, cracking apart due to crank runout, squirter jets, ???
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #46 on: October 20, 2017, 01:16:26 AM »

Prices escalate rapidly when they start throwing around words like "billet".  Add in some fancy red anodizing, and the required Fueling cam plate, and I'm guessing the total price will be over a grand.  But as you noted, right now all three versions of the pump appear to be free, the cam plates are $300 and $380.

Jerry

Wondering if these are similar/same as the "new" M8 pumps?  Probably not.  Agreed they will be pricey, pretty red pump hidden where nobody can see it.  Guess they figure with regular touring bike price points starting in the mid 20s & CVOs going for 42k, buyers have money to burn. 

At some point we will see what the new HD pumps look like.  Curious as to what what the changes are, and if they will be like the ever changing compensators that continued to fail.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #47 on: October 20, 2017, 08:50:30 AM »

So my riding buddy’s 2017 road-glide went to the shop with a bad oil pump ( 3000 miles). Harley informed the dealer to tear down the motor to see if there was as damage caused by the low oil pressure. Waiting for the verdict. The original oil pump on the m8 was a bad design.

Kojak...what engine was in your buddy's Road Glide?  Just wondering if the oil pump failure is showing up in the 107s.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2017, 05:05:31 PM »

107. He was riding one day and his oil engine light came on. He pulled over and called me. He said it went off when he hit 2200 or higher rpm, his oil level was fine and he didn't see anything wrong. I figured it was probably an electronic glitch and told him to run it in to the dealer. The dealer called Harley and was told to strip down the engine to see if there was internal damage (I'm guessing its a known problem by now). That's when they found metal shavings, top end damage and are waiting for Harley to approve an engine swap. I'll connect with him in a couple of days and get an update.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #49 on: October 20, 2017, 06:12:31 PM »

107. He was riding one day and his oil engine light came on. He pulled over and called me. He said it went off when he hit 2200 or higher rpm, his oil level was fine and he didn't see anything wrong. I figured it was probably an electronic glitch and told him to run it in to the dealer. The dealer called Harley and was told to strip down the engine to see if there was internal damage (I'm guessing its a known problem by now). That's when they found metal shavings, top end damage and are waiting for Harley to approve an engine swap. I'll connect with him in a couple of days and get an update.

As predicted, eventually we’d see stock M8s failing due to sumping. More of these to come particularly as 2017 bike owners put more miles on their engines. Next year’s riding season could be eye opening for alot of guys that thought they avoided any sumping issues but didn’t put alot of miles on their new M8 bike this year.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2017, 09:12:11 AM »


The problems haven't just been about sumping, there have also been mechanical failures causing low pressure.  In other words, it isn't just a performance kit problem, or a 114/117 problem, it appears to be another Harley engineering failure that could affect any M8.  I think most of us knew, even if we really wanted the M8 to be a huge improvement, that Harley couldn't avoid the mistakes that seem to plague them on everything they do.  Oil pumps are about as basic an item as there is, and yet Harley seems to have real problems getting theirs right.  Evo pumps had issues, TC pumps had issues, and now M8 pumps have issues.  Meanwhile, the rest of the vehicle industry seems to have mastered oil pumps decades ago.

Jerry
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2017, 09:19:41 AM »

The problems haven't just been about sumping, there have also been mechanical failures causing low pressure.  In other words, it isn't just a performance kit problem, or a 114/117 problem, it appears to be another Harley engineering failure that could affect any M8.  I think most of us knew, even if we really wanted the M8 to be a huge improvement, that Harley couldn't avoid the mistakes that seem to plague them on everything they do.  Oil pumps are about as basic an item as there is, and yet Harley seems to have real problems getting theirs right.  Evo pumps had issues, TC pumps had issues, and now M8 pumps have issues.  Meanwhile, the rest of the vehicle industry seems to have mastered oil pumps decades ago.

Jerry

I have said from day one that the twin cam lifter failures were/are not a lifter issue, rather the lifter failures are a result of a basic oiling issue within the twin cam motors...

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #52 on: October 21, 2017, 09:21:17 AM »

Think about it, one can order a pretty nice brand new vehicle for less than the price of a CVO, and would be extremely disappointed if it needed any major service under 100,000 miles.

Seeing as the lifters do pretty good on the early Twin Cam engines, I attribute the chronic lifter issues on the big TCs to the aggressive cam lobes introduced.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 09:23:45 AM by 2002FXDWG3 »
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #53 on: October 21, 2017, 09:28:34 AM »

Think about it, one can order a pretty nice brand new vehicle for less than the price of a CVO, and would be extremely disappointed if it needed any major service under 100,000 miles.

Seeing as the lifters do pretty good on the early Twin Cam engines, I attribute the chronic lifter issues on the big TCs to the aggressive cam lobes introduced.

The cam plate design is significantly different in the early twin cam motors vs. the twin cam motors that have experienced repeated lifter failures.

(just an observation...)

« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 09:31:09 AM by sadunbar »
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #54 on: October 21, 2017, 09:36:42 AM »

I much prefer the big roller bearings of the early plates vs bronze inserts of the later plates.  Inside info would indicate this was purely a cost cutting design change.  But the roller chains and hydraulic tensioners are definitely an improvement.  Hybrid camplate kit gets you pretty close to a good design, less the inner Morse chain that remains.

But since the later bikes have the improved oil pump but also the lifter failure issue, I would not associate the high lifter failure rate with the oil pump.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #55 on: October 21, 2017, 01:26:11 PM »


IMHO the lifter failures are a direct result of the choices Harley made regarding cam profiles and valve springs.  Needle bearings (or ball bearings for that matter) do not tolerate impact very long before flat spots develop which ultimately lead to failure.  Once the bearing starts chewing itself up, it doesn't take long to have a complete failure of the lifter roller and ultimately the lifter body at the roller axle as well.  Perhaps direct oiling of the roller bearings might help extend the life of the roller and bearings, but I doubt it would eliminate the failures.

Jerry
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #56 on: October 22, 2017, 12:42:17 PM »

Does anyone really know what the problem with the OEM pump is yet?  Bad design, cracking apart due to crank runout, squirter jets, ???
how many experience the abrupt de cel,  along with he total lack of power?  This happens in al gears  and in the low and lower gears it is so abrupt  it could very easily get to the point  of dangerous in different ways, depending on conditions.

 
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #57 on: October 22, 2017, 08:48:43 PM »

AMS Johnson Hy-left for direct oiling.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2017, 07:36:58 AM »

Hi guys, again I will be showing my naivety about the motorcycle repairs. My fear with the oil pump problem is that I break down during a long trip. I am going to ask for your alls opinions, but let me give you some background. I’ve owned three Harley,s in my life, ‘81 lowrider, ‘07 heritage classic, and a 09 cvo limited. I recently purchased a ‘17 cvo limited (used with 700 miles). Will pick it up in Fl and ride it to my home in NC right before Christmas (I work overseas). Except for the 09 CVO, i experienced little maintenance issues. The problem I had with the 09 was that the back spark plug seized to the head (warranty took care of it). The bike was thoroughly checked and i got an affidavit stating the had no accidents, and no mechanical failures. I had a stage I kit installed, and based on the posts I’ve studied, I’m thinking of having the dealership replace the oil pump with one of the ones listed in fueling link provided in an earlier post (will the pump listed on that website void the warranty?) I agree with all, there won’t be a recall. My concern is breaking down and doing more damage to the bike as I ride it home. I realize this is an imaginable fear, but I want to minimize the stress of a possible breakdown. My question, and all thoughts and opinions are welcomed, do you think the fueling pumps are more trustworthy than the oem oil pumps? Thanks all. Vr, Paul


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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2017, 08:28:21 AM »


I doubt anyone can honestly answer your question.  First, no one really knows what the real root cause of the problem is, and Harley isn't talking.  Second, I don't think anyone has had first hand experience with the Fueling pumps, since they don't seem to be for sale yet (note the $0.00 prices on the pumps in that link).  I can answer the question about the warranty however.  If you install an aftermarket oil pump and then experience any lubrication related failures, Harley will deny any responsibility under the factory warranty.  So while you might think you would get improved peace of mind by changing to an aftermarket oil pump, that's not necessarily true.

JMHO - Jerry
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #60 on: October 24, 2017, 08:53:26 AM »

I doubt anyone can honestly answer your question.  First, no one really knows what the real root cause of the problem is, and Harley isn't talking.  Second, I don't think anyone has had first hand experience with the Fueling pumps, since they don't seem to be for sale yet (note the $0.00 prices on the pumps in that link).  I can answer the question about the warranty however.  If you install an aftermarket oil pump and then experience any lubrication related failures, Harley will deny any responsibility under the factory warranty.  So while you might think you would get improved peace of mind by changing to an aftermarket oil pump, that's not necessarily true.

JMHO - Jerry

I'll second what Jerry states above.  If I were in your shoes, I would go to FL and retrieve it as is with the warranty intact.  If something happens on the way home or after arriving home, the warranty will still be available to repair that issue (oil pump or otherwise).  I'm a firm believer in using the warranty and not putting it in jeopardy with any modifications during the factory warranty period that would void it.  Congratulations on the new bike, too.  Hope the ride home is uneventful except for the smile on your face... ;D
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #61 on: October 24, 2017, 01:42:34 PM »

I'll second what Jerry states above.  If I were in your shoes, I would go to FL and retrieve it as is with the warranty intact.  If something happens on the way home or after arriving home, the warranty will still be available to repair that issue (oil pump or otherwise).  I'm a firm believer in using the warranty and not putting it in jeopardy with any modifications during the factory warranty period that would void it.  Congratulations on the new bike, too.  Hope the ride home is uneventful except for the smile on your face... ;D
x3.  If you replace the oil pump (with an aftermarket option) while the bike is still under HD warranty, and something goes south in the engine, you've just given HD an out on honoring the warranty.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #62 on: October 25, 2017, 10:55:01 AM »

Never fear, I can fix your oil pump problem here ....



Sorry, couldn't resist. ;D
I think that is how I'm gonna fix any future issues with my twin cam.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #63 on: October 25, 2017, 12:00:33 PM »

Never fear, I can fix your oil pump problem here ....



Sorry, couldn't resist. ;D
I think that is how I'm gonna fix any future issues with my twin cam.

Beautiful bike.....
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #64 on: October 25, 2017, 01:03:28 PM »

I just can't see owning a Goldwing after riding one.  Definately not.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #65 on: October 25, 2017, 05:02:41 PM »

You meet the nicest people on a Honda.
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pcpisano

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #66 on: October 25, 2017, 06:12:00 PM »

Hey guys, thanks for the advice and opinions. I will follow you alls advice.  Vr, Paul


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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #67 on: October 26, 2017, 12:44:39 AM »

I just can't see owning a Goldwing after riding one.  Definately not.
I agree with you, I couldn't get myself to buy one either even though I do understand how reliable Honda cars and motorcycles are. I will say strictly looks wise the GW IMO looks much better than the new Yamaha though neither is my cup of tea. Honestly I feel the same way about their cars though I would buy a Honda car way before I bought one of their bikes but I don't ride a motorcycle for day to day transportation.
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Alan

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #68 on: October 26, 2017, 01:21:03 PM »

The Mrs said "I won't ride on one". End of discussion :huepfenjump3:
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Designflaw

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #69 on: October 27, 2017, 03:48:16 PM »

 :drink:  Well now you guys have just made me nervous. I have about 4K on mine and I bought it Dec. 2016 so I assume its early production. Guess I'll start checking the oil more often. Fingers crossed, but no issues as of yet.
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happyman

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #70 on: October 28, 2017, 12:31:24 AM »

:drink:  Well now you guys have just made me nervous. I have about 4K on mine and I bought it Dec. 2016 so I assume its early production. Guess I'll start checking the oil more often. Fingers crossed, but no issues as of yet.
 
seems if your bike has  issues you will feel lose of power, and heat, just to mention a couple things that may or may not happen . .
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #71 on: October 28, 2017, 08:15:23 AM »

:drink:  Well now you guys have just made me nervous. I have about 4K on mine and I bought it Dec. 2016 so I assume its early production. Guess I'll start checking the oil more often. Fingers crossed, but no issues as of yet.
Guess I was lucky with my 17 CVO street glide, it was a very early bike got it the very end of Sept 16.  Put 20,526 trouble free miles on her before I traded it.  A Friend, put over 25K on his before he traded it.  He also had no engine issue.  We got our bikes the same day.

I have 4468 miles on my 18 CVO RG and so far no issues.  Hoping it stays that way.
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Designflaw

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #72 on: October 28, 2017, 08:25:41 AM »

Guess I was lucky with my 17 CVO street glide, it was a very early bike got it the very end of Sept 16.  Put 20,526 trouble free miles on her before I traded it.  A Friend, put over 25K on his before he traded it.  He also had no engine issue.  We got our bikes the same day.

I have 4468 miles on my 18 CVO RG and so far no issues.  Hoping it stays that way.
Great to know. I know there are a lot more bikes out there than habe posted issues, but it's good to know for things to keep am eye on.
And man that is some riding! Got 18K on my 14 I traded for this one in 3 years.

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happyman

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #73 on: October 28, 2017, 11:10:18 AM »

Great to know. I know there are a lot more bikes out there than habe posted issues, but it's good to know for things to keep am eye on.
And man that is some riding! Got 18K on my 14 I traded for this one in 3 years.

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lot of them out there that do not realize there is an issue when they to.
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fmichael

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #74 on: October 30, 2017, 05:14:34 PM »

For what it's worth.  I just purchased a 2017 Ultra Limited and did the stage IV 107 - 114 upgrade before taking delivery.  Shop called to say there was a delay in delivering the bike because HD recalled the oil pump on any stage IV upgrade.  Bike was manufactured in 2/2017.  I guess they are playing it safe. I was glad to hear they did that on an engine with 23 miles on before the SE kit.  Additional options were hi flow exhaust, HD tuner, push rod kit, and SE breather.  Not broken in yet, but has serious balls up to 4K.  Looking forward to cranking on it after the first oil change.
Peace
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Heatwave

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2017, 06:05:22 PM »

For what it's worth.  I just purchased a 2017 Ultra Limited and did the stage IV 107 - 114 upgrade before taking delivery.  Shop called to say there was a delay in delivering the bike because HD recalled the oil pump on any stage IV upgrade.  Bike was manufactured in 2/2017.  I guess they are playing it safe. I was glad to hear they did that on an engine with 23 miles on before the SE kit.  Additional options were hi flow exhaust, HD tuner, push rod kit, and SE breather.  Not broken in yet, but has serious balls up to 4K.  Looking forward to cranking on it after the first oil change.
Peace

I don’t understand. If there’s a “delay in delivering the bike because HD recalled the stage 4 oil pump” how did did you ride the bike to determine it “has serious balls up to 4k”? Are you referring to the stock bike before it went in for the stage 4 upgrade?

What is the latest direction from HD on a new design oil pump for your bike?
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 06:08:22 PM by Heatwave »
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fmichael

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2017, 09:55:33 PM »

I don’t understand. If there’s a “delay in delivering the bike because HD recalled the stage 4 oil pump” how did did you ride the bike to determine it “has serious balls up to 4k”? Are you referring to the stock bike before it went in for the stage 4 upgrade?

What is the latest direction from HD on a new design oil pump for your bike?

Sorry.  New here.  I guess I wasn't clear.

-The bike is a leftover 2017.  Brand new with 23 miles. Did the deal 10/13/17. 
-Purchased the bike and immediately did the 107 - 114 stage 4 kit before taking delivery on bike.
-2 weeks after doing the deal, prior to picking up the bike there was a delay in finishing the engine upgrade because HD stated the oil pump is a recall item on any stage 4 upgrades.  So the dealer had to wait and get the new pump before finishing the upgrade.
-My understanding from the service manager is that this is something new to him.
-I am glad at least the newest rendition of the most current oil pump will be in the bike from word go. 
-There was nothing wrong with the original 107 motor or oil/pressure/pump.  Apparently this is a precaution on HD's part for performance upgrades.
-Unsure if this policy would apply to the other stage upgrades.

Hope that is clearer.
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Heatwave

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2017, 10:43:45 PM »

Sorry.  New here.  I guess I wasn't clear.

-The bike is a leftover 2017.  Brand new with 23 miles. Did the deal 10/13/17. 
-Purchased the bike and immediately did the 107 - 114 stage 4 kit before taking delivery on bike.
-2 weeks after doing the deal, prior to picking up the bike there was a delay in finishing the engine upgrade because HD stated the oil pump is a recall item on any stage 4 upgrades.  So the dealer had to wait and get the new pump before finishing the upgrade.
-My understanding from the service manager is that this is something new to him.
-I am glad at least the newest rendition of the most current oil pump will be in the bike from word go. 
-There was nothing wrong with the original 107 motor or oil/pressure/pump.  Apparently this is a precaution on HD's part for performance upgrades.
-Unsure if this policy would apply to the other stage upgrades.

Hope that is clearer.

There’s lots of threads on the issue. I’m on my 3rd engine in a 2017 CVO Limited. First 2 engines had stage 4 upgrades. My current 3rd engine is still stock. hD has been through 5 or 6 versions of oil pumps attempting to resolve sumping issues that have been causing complete engine failures.

Do you have the bike done at this point? Do you have it back with the stage kit and latest new oil pump?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 08:09:45 AM by Heatwave »
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fmichael

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #78 on: October 31, 2017, 05:39:07 AM »

There’s lots of threads on the issue. I’m on my 3rd engine in a 2017 CVO Limited. First 2 engines had stage 4 upgrades. My current 3rd engine is still stock. hD has been through 5 or 6 versions of oil pumps attempting to resolve sumping issues that have been causing co plete engine failures.

Do you have the bike done at this point? Do you have it back with the stage kit and latest new oil pump?

I am sorry to hear about your issues with your CVO.  I hope they stand behind it until all the issues are resolved.

I do have the bike.  Has about 400 miles over the past week or two.  Oil pump was replaced with engine upgrade.  P/N 62400182.  Photo of repair order attached.  Engine had 23 miles prior to stage 4 kit upgrade.

Still being careful with taking it past 4K RPM's until around 600-700 miles.  Will change engine oil around 800 I am thinking.  Hoping the first oil isn't too shiney with debris.  After the first oil and filter change I will start seeing what it can do, but thus far the lower end power from 2000-3800 RPM feels strong. 

One thing about the stage 4 that I wasn't expecting is the top end valve train noise.  Engine is a little on the "ticky" side.  Being told that there is nothing that can be done with that as the higher lift cam and performance valve springs are the cause and its the price you pay for the extra power.  Not sure I agree with that.  But perhaps the folks here can chime in. 
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Heatwave

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #79 on: October 31, 2017, 08:14:14 AM »

I am sorry to hear about your issues with your CVO.  I hope they stand behind it until all the issues are resolved.

I do have the bike.  Has about 400 miles over the past week or two.  Oil pump was replaced with engine upgrade.  P/N 62400182.  Photo of repair order attached.  Engine had 23 miles prior to stage 4 kit upgrade.

Still being careful with taking it past 4K RPM's until around 600-700 miles.  Will change engine oil around 800 I am thinking.  Hoping the first oil isn't too shiney with debris.  After the first oil and filter change I will start seeing what it can do, but thus far the lower end power from 2000-3800 RPM feels strong. 

One thing about the stage 4 that I wasn't expecting is the top end valve train noise.  Engine is a little on the "ticky" side.  Being told that there is nothing that can be done with that as the higher lift cam and performance valve springs are the cause and its the price you pay for the extra power.  Not sure I agree with that.  But perhaps the folks here can chime in. 

 

Yes the CNC ported heads with higher spring rate plus higher lift cam will be noisier. That’s how you’re building more power. Not much you can do about the ticking but enjoy the ride.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2018, 06:40:56 PM by Heatwave »
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Philip

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #80 on: February 13, 2018, 05:00:09 PM »

Just had my oil pump relaced due to oil lite coming on at 4500 miles. Dealer didn't mess around with waiting. Fingers crossed this is what corrects the problem.
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costablanca

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #81 on: April 28, 2018, 06:28:59 PM »

Hi everyone and greetings from Spain!

Just wanted to add my awful experience to the mix.

Last week my March 2017 CVO Street Glide had an engine fail caused by a faulty oil pump too!

I'm in in the first part of a planned 3 month tour of Spain on the bike, and now it is in pieces in a dealer!

The Spanish HD mechanics tell me that they just need to change the oil pump and tappets and it will be fine, but I called the UK dealer where I bought the bike from and he suggested that an engine starved of oil due to a faulty oil pump with have a lot more problems than merely tappets!

This should have been a recall!!!!!!
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pcpisano

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #82 on: May 15, 2018, 07:17:12 PM »

Hi everyone and greetings from Spain!

Just wanted to add my awful experience to the mix.

Last week my March 2017 CVO Street Glide had an engine fail caused by a faulty oil pump too!

I'm in in the first part of a planned 3 month tour of Spain on the bike, and now it is in pieces in a dealer!

The Spanish HD mechanics tell me that they just need to change the oil pump and tappets and it will be fine, but I called the UK dealer where I bought the bike from and he suggested that an engine starved of oil due to a faulty oil pump with have a lot more problems than merely tappets!

This should have been a recall!!!!!!


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pcpisano

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #83 on: May 15, 2018, 07:24:13 PM »


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Sorry to hear about your misfortune... I recently purchased a 17 Limited (December) hadn’t had any problems, but my riding is limited due to work. Planning a cross country late summer, and have some serious concerns about breakdown due to sumping, poor quality oil pumps, et al... I gotta ask... is there anyone not having sumping problems? Thanks.



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Mark

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #84 on: May 15, 2018, 07:49:18 PM »

Sorry to hear about your misfortune... I recently purchased a 17 Limited (December) hadn’t had any problems, but my riding is limited due to work. Planning a cross country late summer, and have some serious concerns about breakdown due to sumping, poor quality oil pumps, et al... I gotta ask... is there anyone not having sumping problems? Thanks.



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I don't think the BMW, Goldwing, Yamaha, or Indian guys are having problems.
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happyman

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #85 on: May 15, 2018, 10:19:07 PM »

Hi everyone and greetings from Spain!

Just wanted to add my awful experience to the mix.

Last week my March 2017 CVO Street Glide had an engine fail caused by a faulty oil pump too!

I'm in in the first part of a planned 3 month tour of Spain on the bike, and now it is in pieces in a dealer!

The Spanish HD mechanics tell me that they just need to change the oil pump and tappets and it will be fine, but I called the UK dealer where I bought the bike from and he suggested that an engine starved of oil due to a faulty oil pump with have a lot more problems than merely tappets!

This should have been a recall!!!!!!
  yup there needs to be a tear down more often than net . these things get vey hot and starved for oil because of sumping.  on the top end and all the oil that can in many case accumulates in the lower end ruins the  complete lower end, as well as the complete motor just depends .   
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costablanca

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #86 on: May 16, 2018, 07:27:50 AM »

Hola again

Actually it gets worse, turned out that due to the oil pump problems, the whole motor is ruined.

The AD dealer in Alicante did such a bad Job and misdiagnosis, that I told them to stop work, not fix it, and had it collected and taken to the UK where the bike was purchased.

I will keep you posted how it turns out!

Ride carefully everyone!
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pcpisano

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #87 on: May 16, 2018, 08:19:58 AM »

I don't think the BMW, Goldwing, Yamaha, or Indian guys are having problems.

I figured as much, what about Harleys? Are there any Harleys not experiencing any sumping problems? Thanks all.


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happyman

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #88 on: May 16, 2018, 08:25:39 AM »

I figured as much, what about Harleys? Are there any Harleys not experiencing any sumping problems? Thanks all.


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would have to wonder how many are having the issue, and are not aware of it.
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Haird

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #89 on: May 16, 2018, 08:30:56 AM »

I don't think the BMW, Goldwing, Yamaha, or Indian guys are having problems.

now DAT'S phuny rat dare....good one, Mark.
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Para Bellum

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #90 on: May 16, 2018, 05:30:01 PM »

I figured as much, what about Harleys? Are there any Harleys not experiencing any sumping problems yet? Thanks all.
^^^  Fixed that for you. 

I haven't had sumping yet on my 107 with the Stage 3/114 kit...but it's barely out of break-in and it hasn't had any high-RPM running.
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #91 on: May 16, 2018, 11:05:17 PM »

Hola again

Actually it gets worse, turned out that due to the oil pump problems, the whole motor is ruined.

The AD dealer in Alicante did such a bad Job and misdiagnosis, that I told them to stop work, not fix it, and had it collected and taken to the UK where the bike was purchased.

I will keep you posted how it turns out!

Ride carefully everyone!


That looks like a stock motor, yes?  Unfortunately, I’ve seen that type of damage before.
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happyman

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #92 on: May 16, 2018, 11:27:39 PM »

^^^  Fixed that for you. 

I haven't had sumping yet on my 107 with the Stage 3/114 kit...but it's barely out of break-in and it hasn't had any high-RPM running.

needless to say they do not need to be RPM'nd  to see sumping .  pf  you never get any sumping you are fortunate.. enjoy the ride and have a ball/
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #93 on: May 17, 2018, 12:02:50 AM »

needless to say they do not need to be RPM'nd  to see sumping .  pf  you never get any sumping you are fortunate.. enjoy the ride and have a ball/
Thanks, happyman. It is a fun engine and bike, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the summer heat and more playing don't turn into a problem, especially far from home.  Feel bad for everyone who has.
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happyman

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #94 on: May 17, 2018, 12:23:33 AM »

Thanks, happyman. It is a fun engine and bike, and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the summer heat and more playing don't turn into a problem, especially far from home.  Feel bad for everyone who has.
not fun even when your only  fifty miles  from home and its close to 90*  with humidity and high dewpoint. motor pukes and your out there pulled off the road because check engine light comes on and the extreme loud clattering is not something to ride when yo have traffic on top of you . so you have to wait over two hours for a tow and hand out big $$$ to get the bike home .   yes its very sad   to have to deal with this.
once again hope you have a good time riding trouble free, its what you paid for, so enjoy. 
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #95 on: May 22, 2018, 06:23:09 PM »

Hola again

Actually it gets worse, turned out that due to the oil pump problems, the whole motor is ruined.

The AD dealer in Alicante did such a bad Job and misdiagnosis, that I told them to stop work, not fix it, and had it collected and taken to the UK where the bike was purchased.

I will keep you posted how it turns out!
Man, that is one nasty looking piston. Hope all turns out well in the end for you.

Ride carefully everyone!
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costablanca

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #96 on: June 07, 2018, 11:09:03 AM »

Hi everyone, yes the bike is stock apart from stage one and screaming eagle tuner-end cans.

I have done about 5750 miles or 9300 kms in the 1st year, so I am glad the issue appeared now, instead of just after the warranty expired.

Ride carefully everyone and have a great day!
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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #97 on: August 28, 2018, 11:39:46 AM »

Hi everyone, just a quick update for you regarding my 2017 114 cvo street glide, after the faulty oil pump caused an engine failure.

Harley eventually replaced the entire engine to fix the problem, and the new engine came with a newly upgraded oil pump because of the many issues we are all aware of.

I had started a 3 month tour of europe and was only in the first week when my engine went, so had to return home to the uk and wait for the bike to be repaired.  The bike broke down in April, and it was only finished on the 11th of August hmm "NOT IMPRESSED"

I decided to book another 3 month trip ad try again, so on the 13th of August I took the ferry from Plymouth to Santander, where my first ride would be 830kms or roughly 500 miles to my first stop in Alicante.  I managed to get just past Bilbao when the bike broke down again!!!!

This time after yet another trip on the back of a recovery truck, it turns out the the regulator has broken.  I had to get a hotel for the night, leave the bike at harley Bilbao and get a flight to my first destination stopover.

I was told that the new regulator would take 2 weeks to arrive and would be here on the 27th of August, but yesterday the dealer called me and told me it would arrive on the 8th of September!

So, It looks like I'm about to lose another month of my second 3 month trip!! Thanks Harley!

What I am struggling to understand is why they need nearly a month to replace a standard touring part, a part that is not a cvo part, but one used as a standard part on many turing models.

that is all for now, I will let you all know how it goes.

Ride safely everyone
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Heatwave

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #98 on: August 28, 2018, 01:03:06 PM »

Hi everyone, just a quick update for you regarding my 2017 114 cvo street glide, after the faulty oil pump caused an engine failure.

Harley eventually replaced the entire engine to fix the problem, and the new engine came with a newly upgraded oil pump because of the many issues we are all aware of.

I had started a 3 month tour of europe and was only in the first week when my engine went, so had to return home to the uk and wait for the bike to be repaired.  The bike broke down in April, and it was only finished on the 11th of August hmm "NOT IMPRESSED"

I decided to book another 3 month trip ad try again, so on the 13th of August I took the ferry from Plymouth to Santander, where my first ride would be 830kms or roughly 500 miles to my first stop in Alicante.  I managed to get just past Bilbao when the bike broke down again!!!!

This time after yet another trip on the back of a recovery truck, it turns out the the regulator has broken.  I had to get a hotel for the night, leave the bike at harley Bilbao and get a flight to my first destination stopover.

I was told that the new regulator would take 2 weeks to arrive and would be here on the 27th of August, but yesterday the dealer called me and told me it would arrive on the 8th of September!

So, It looks like I'm about to lose another month of my second 3 month trip!! Thanks Harley!

What I am struggling to understand is why they need nearly a month to replace a standard touring part, a part that is not a cvo part, but one used as a standard part on many turing models.

that is all for now, I will let you all know how it goes.

Ride safely everyone

Very sad to hear. And very disappointing. When was the second engine installed?
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BigLew

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #99 on: August 28, 2018, 02:02:12 PM »

What I am struggling to understand is why they need nearly a month to replace a standard touring part, a part that is not a cvo part, but one used as a standard part on many turing models.

I guess the bigger question is why Harley thinks its ok??

BigLew
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costablanca

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #100 on: August 28, 2018, 02:09:04 PM »

The motor was just replaced now, I had to wait an extra 3 weeks for a gasket!!

Since the new engine, I had done just under 300 miles before the bike broke down due to the electrical problem!

I think this is a joke to be honest, supposedly I bought a flagship harley, but I am sure no other motorcycle brand would leave me like this!
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2002FXDWG3

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #101 on: August 28, 2018, 02:45:41 PM »

It's absolutely shameful.
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costablanca

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #102 on: August 28, 2018, 04:31:34 PM »

I even asked to change the bike for a new 2019 cvo limited, and asked for a good will gesture.

Harley replied by saying no, and that they had done all they needed to by replacing my engine!
they seemed to think between 5 and 6 months with no bike and no compensation is ok!

The dealer where I bought the bike was nice enough to offer me just under half the new price at 12 months old if I bought a new 1!!!

I have never been so insulted!
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lyn.husen

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Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #103 on: August 28, 2018, 04:50:45 PM »

You would think that after all the time wasted, vacations put off & just all around BS that they put you through there would be a little bit of remorse on their part. Forgot to add: of course we all know that’s unlikely to happen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: August 28, 2018, 07:12:22 PM by lyn.husen »
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2002FXDWG3

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #104 on: August 28, 2018, 05:10:00 PM »

None whatsoever.  Once payment is made they honor the warranty per terms, generally nothing more.
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fastfreddy

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #105 on: August 28, 2018, 06:50:14 PM »

 sounds like the bike has been in their possession longer than yours.... sad  :-\
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SERGU aka the RENTAL ... never home & always broke...Thnx FF

costablanca

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #106 on: August 29, 2018, 03:27:40 PM »

Almost!! sad but true!

I have asked HD UK to look into it to see what can be done, I will let you know how I get on.  Apparently this has gone right to the top of HD UK.

If as I expect they do nothing, I have registered the domain www.myharleynightmare.com (not live yet) which I will use to tell the whole story right from the beginning including all disasters so the entire biking community is made aware of the things that can happen and how we get treated when they do.

If they don't help me and find a solution, the website will be built, live and will be in 6 languages, followed by twitter, facebook, instagram and Youtube, just to get the message across.

This is not me being bitter or vengeful, I just refuse to let anyone get away with treating me like this.

I will only talk about and write exactly what has happened from the start, with no personal opinions at all.

Ride safely everyone!
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Para Bellum

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #107 on: August 30, 2018, 01:25:17 AM »

I have asked HD UK to look into it to see what can be done, I will let you know how I get on.  Apparently this has gone right to the top of HD UK.
Does the UK have an equivalent to the US "Lemon Law?"  US lemon laws require the dealer/manufacturer to buy back the faulty vehicle at full purchase price (possibly with some deduction for mileage) if the vehicle has been unusable for some period of time, or has required repair for the same problem several times.
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If you want peace, prepare for war.

costablanca

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #108 on: August 31, 2018, 04:18:30 AM »

I don't know, but so far there have been 2 seperate faults.

What I need to check is if I have any legal stance at all because of the bike being out of my hands for 6 months, having owned it only since april 2017
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SDCVO

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Re: Another 114 M8 Bad Oil Pump
« Reply #109 on: September 01, 2018, 12:05:59 AM »

I don't know, but so far there have been 2 seperate faults.

What I need to check is if I have any legal stance at all because of the bike being out of my hands for 6 months, having owned it only since april 2017
In the US the law is very specific and I am sure it is on that side of the pond as well. You should find out what that is before so you are "armed" if you decide to go down that road. Speaking from experience they will play hard ball with you if you do but if you have the law on your side it will work out. In the US it is about multiple "same" breakdowns and consecutive timing on repairs.
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Alan
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