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[FLSTFI Dave]

More good news, 450 miles today with no issues. Maybe-maybe--

Really glad to hear that!  Gives us hope.   

I will say reading the tire thread where guys are getting 15000-20000 (some complaining about that..) miles on their tires kinda makes me understand why my motors keep sumping.

I have read that too.  On the CVO's with M8 motors 12K is what I get on the rear,  Prior to the M8 I was getting 18K or bit more except my 13K, the built motor that tires good for about 13K.  Trying a American Elite on the rear of the king this time.

Sorry Alan,

But I’m not following this line of thought. How does tire mileage give you an understanding of why your engines keep sumping?

Mark

My following of it, is the harder your acceleration the more it wears the rear tire, the harder your braking the more the tires wear.

I have often wondered how friends get 22K out of a rear and I get 9K or 10K less out of the rear.  Ride with them in the curves, mountains and back roads, I it becomes more clear. 

[Ironhorse]

Really glad to hear that!  Gives us hope.   

I have read that too.  On the CVO's with M8 motors 12K is what I get on the rear,  Prior to the M8 I was getting 18K or bit more except my 13K, the built motor that tires good for about 13K.  Trying a American Elite on the rear of the king this time.
My following of it, is the harder your acceleration the more it wears the rear tire, the harder your braking the more the tires wear.

I have often wondered how friends get 22K out of a rear and I get 9K or 10K less out of the rear.  Ride with them in the curves, mountains and back roads, I it becomes more clear.

That I understand. I’m just not seeing how tire mileage relates to all his engine sumping.

[skratch]

ride hard = less tire mileage.

ride hard = more apt to sump....

higher mileage = less 'spirited' rider = less apt to sump

[scottt]

Heatwave,  I sumped my totally stock 18 CVO the first time on a 40 mile ride. The bike had 168 miles on the odometer. Then the dealer took it out and cooked the engine.   Then H/D hand built my replacement engine as a stage IV. And I babied it for the next 1,000 miles and brought it to Florida and sumped it on the first trip. The 18 was a replacement after sumping the 17 with two replacement engines. 
So my bike is sitting in a Florida dealership and H/D is getting me a second replacement bike.  I told them to leave it totally stock.  I requested a Mako Shark Fade and they had none available but were able to add 1 additional bike into production.  It was officially assembled yesterday in York, Pa.  and being shipped to Florida by the second week of January.   I will say this, Harley Davidson is honestly going out of their way to make things right but I think H/D has had my bike for more days then I have??  Thank goodness I have a garage full of bikes.  So as I told our rep, I will keep the bike stock for the winter and after Myrtle Beach I will ride it back to New York and go aftermarket for a fix unless H/D actually gives in and builds a completely different fix for this.  Two years of this is not fun.  Sad thing is I actually thought they fixed my 18 and just installed Yaffe bars, mirrors and other stuff which I will lose. Not to mention, two extended warranties I lost money on and one of the local Long Island dealers now hates me.  Let's hope the 2019 makes it through a Florida winter.  LOL  I don't mean to laugh because it's cost me thousands in lost parts and labor but the alternative is to cry.   

Why would a dealer hate you, just because your engine sumped?

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[grc]

ride hard = less tire mileage.

ride hard = more apt to sump....

higher mileage = less 'spirited' rider = less apt to sump

Higher RPM = more oil volume pumped into engine per mile or period of time, leading to sumping when the oil volume in the sump exceeds the ability of the oiling system to remove it promptly.  Kind of like filling a bucket with a 1/2 gallon per minute hole in the bottom from a 1 gallon per minute spigot.  Eventually the bucket will overflow.

Jerry

[J.D.]

Has anyone yet definitively correlated sumping to hard acceleration, temperature, in/out of throttle, rapid deceleration, or other?  Still seems very odd to me that an engine will sump "sometimes" and often cannot be recreated.

[SDCVO]

I've never got close to 1500 on a rear tire.  Maybe that's cuz I'm tryin to keep up with you.      Are we riding Sat. or Sun?

im in, let me know what works for you

[SDCVO]

Higher RPM = more oil volume pumped into engine per mile or period of time, leading to sumping when the oil volume in the sump exceeds the ability of the oiling system to remove it promptly.  Kind of like filling a bucket with a 1/2 gallon per minute hole in the bottom from a 1 gallon per minute spigot.  Eventually the bucket will overflow.

Jerry

What he said..

[SDCVO]

im in, let me know what works for you

Sat would work better for me if that works? Im sure the sooner Babe can get ride of you the better..

[JCZ]

That I understand. I’m just not seeing how tire mileage relates to all his engine sumping.

That's cuz you haven't rode with Alan.   

[JCZ]

Sat would work better for me if that works? Im sure the sooner Babe can get ride of you the better..

Sat. works for me.  I'll be at the Chula Vista Elk's Lodge (right next to the Mexico boarder)....where do you want to meet?  What time?

[Ironhorse]

That's cuz you haven't rode with Alan.   

Yes I have. In fact I talked him out of riding “the road less traveled” with you and Miguel. And it was a wise decision,...lol!

As for the topic, I’m calling BS on that. All things being even, if you can’t ride an engine hard for fear of sumping, there’s something wrong with the design of the engine.

But I could be wrong.

[Robmay]

I don’t think anyone is saying it’s okay, just that it’s more than likely part of the cause.


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[grc]

Sumping is ABSOLUTELY NOT NORMAL OR ACCEPTABLE even if you ride the thing at redline all day long.  If Harley can't make an engine that will run over 3000 rpm for extended periods, then perhaps they should set the rev limiters at 3000 rpm.   I'm still not convinced the new seal on the oil pump cover is anything more than a band-aid.  I also think they did not address the root cause, and until they do so the potential for failures will always be there under certain conditions.

JMHO - Jerry

[skratch]

agreed with all the above  ^^^^

i remember watching a video on hd testing stuff.  letting a bike sit idling all day long in the hot sun without melting down.  maybe they should have done a high rpm all day test......