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[Heatwave]

Yep, the 3rd engine in my 2017 CVO Limited sumped .... again...just like the 2 before it. This 3rd engine was upgraded to Stage IV by my dealer with custom "one off" cylinders/pistons/rings that were specced by the HD Engineering Lab and overnighted to the dealer for installation. For those not following my saga, you can catch up here https://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=115564.0

After this 3rd engine sumped a week ago, HD shipped another brand new engine over the weekend to my dealer. This new 4th engine was built at the Pilgrim Road facility and was built as a COMPLETE Stage IV 117 engine before shipment to the dealer. I didn't even know HD would build a factory Stage IV 117. That's a new one. My bike was picked up today by the dealership and will be done in time for me to break it in on my ride to Rolling Thunder. Already checked my insurance policy for towing and rental coverage just in case.

No idea what oil pump is in this engine or any other factory changes/upgrades they have done inside this engine. All I know is that it was "meticulously" built at the factory with the latest components. Externally it looks identical to the 3rd engine which had a 2018 part # case. (Engines #1 & 2 had 2017 case part #s) Of particular interest is the fact that this 4th engine now has a 2019 engine case part #. Yep, that's right.... a 2019 engine case part #.

I think I have officially earned my Harley-Davidson R&D Merit Badge!!

I give the MoCo and my dealership credit for persistence, turn around time and for simply not giving up. Here I go again....wish me luck!

[KGB]

Good luck! I hope it works out for you!

[Slyde]

Man that is astonishing!! Fourth time is the charm??...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cmashark]

I would love to know the revisions in the 2019 case.

[SDCVO]

I'm rooting for you!!

[Heatwave]

I would love to know the revisions in the 2019 case.

We’re probably not going to find out till Aug or Sept after the 19’s are launched.

[JCZ]

I'm rooting for you!!

You and Heatwave running a race on these summped motors?  Don't you have three or four also?

[J.D.]

Why is this not a lemon law situation?

[Heatwave]

Why is this not a lemon law situation?

It is, but what’s the point? To get back the money for an 18 month depreciated motorcycle value after dealing with attorneys for 2 yrs?

[grc]

Why is this not a lemon law situation?

It is, but not all states have lemon laws for motorcycles.  Then you have to want to go through that process, with all that entails.  Obviously the folks who are suffering multiple failures with no end in sight have decided to let Harley keep trying to find a band-aid that will work.  They have a lot more patience than I do.  I would have been talking to my attorney immediately after the first replacement engine also failed, and I'd have been looking for a 100% buy-back plus consequential expenses and attorney and court costs.  Everyone has their own priorities and patience level, so I'm not being critical of anyone else's choices, just saying what I would do if I was the guy in the barrel.  I have no doubt in my mind that someone at H-D knows the root cause of this problem.  I also have no doubt they are desperately trying to find a way to avoid fixing that root cause on existing models due to the cost and bad press.  Once again, Harley customers are being given the mushroom treatment.  They've had a lot of practice doing that to customers over many years and decades.

Btw, the mushroom treatment consists of keeping you in the dark and feeding you a lot of chit.

Jerry

[Fired00d]

....  They have a lot more patience than I do.  I would have been talking to my attorney immediately after the first replacement engine also failed, and I'd have been looking for a 100% buy-back plus consequential expenses and attorney and court costs.  ....  Once again, Harley customers are being given the mushroom treatment.  They've had a lot of practice doing that to customers over many years and decades.

Btw, the mushroom treatment consists of keeping you in the dark and feeding you a lot of chit.

Jerry

You and me both Jerry... no way I'd want to keep going thru the same thing expecting a different result (no matter what "improvements" they (MoCo/Dealer) say they are doing to correct the issue. Oh, and thanks for teaching me something new today... I'm saving the "Mushroom Treatment" for future use.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[SDCVO]

You and Heatwave running a race on these summped motors?  Don't you have three or four also?

Ya,Im only at 3..

[Heatwave]

Quick update. Picked up my 2017 CVO Limited with its 4th engine this afternoon. A factory built 117 Stage IV with a 2019 case. Yes...2019 case. Your engine case # can be viewed with a flashlight from under the right side of the engine. NOT the #s stamped on the bottom of the case but the numbers on the lower right side of the engine. The first 2 digits are the model year designation.

My dealer did a terrific job. The tech swapped out the engine in a single day. He's gotten pretty good as you can imagine since this is my 4th engine! (The tech and the shop got a very nice "bonus" from me for turning the bike around so quick, particularly given their work schedule this time of year.) The tech test rode it this morning. Of course it was a bit easier to install this crate engine because it had clearly been dynoed at the factory. Oil, fuel and coolant lines were installed as well as TB and injectors. There was even a bit of fuel still in the fuel line when it was uncrated.

I rode the bike 120 miles this afternoon. Interstate, backroads, 3 times around my 25 mile loop, stop & go commuter traffic too.

DAMN!!!

Gotcha.... that's a good DAMN! Of course its only 120 miles, but I know what to look for now and how to find early signs of sumping. I stayed within all break-in procedures even knowing the engine was probably run on a dyno. First 50 miles - under 3000 rpms. Everything else so far - around 3500 max. A few shifts slightly over but nothing over 3800.

There is definitely something different about this engine. MUCH crisper throttle response even running in 90 degrees. Much cooler running based on limited coolant fans turning on. I was surprised how little the fans were on given the outside temps. Fans really only came on in the stop & go commuter traffic and it was scorching just sitting in the sun. Much better torque down low than any of the 3 earlier engines.

I can't wait to explore the performance above 3500 after its more completely broken in and I have 400-500 miles on the engine (should be by late tomorrow).

Unfortunately I have no idea what's inside this engine other than its a 117 Stage IV built from a 2019 case at the factory. I will be riding it about 600-800 miles starting earlier tomorrow morning through Sunday and will have a much better idea if these early good signs are for real.

BUT, if this 2019 engine IS for real, this is EXACTLY the way all CVOs should be built. HD should stop screwing around and build the CVOs just like this with this engine. It will satisfy 95% of all riders, even power junkies. Its really that good!

Now let's see if my early enthusiasm remains through the weekend, or was all this just a mirage? I would really like to know what changes they've made to this engine because if it holds through the weekend, then the MoCo has finally made some real changes that make for a terrific engine. Look for an update around Memorial Day. Hopefully its a positive update and not a quick update from the side of the road waiting for a tow!!

[Twolanerider]

2017 and 2018 engine cases carry the same part numbers.  So other than stampings making them specific to model year/VIN there shouldn't be any difference.  If this latest install is really an engine from newer production we all can only hope for your sake (and the others who have also suffered this problem) that the baseline problem has been addressed and you'll be good to go for tens of thousands of miles.  Would say hundreds of thousands of miles.  But this is still Harley we're talking about .

[Heatwave]

2017 and 2018 engine cases carry the same part numbers.  So other than stampings making them specific to model year/VIN there shouldn't be any difference.  If this latest install is really an engine from newer production we all can only hope for your sake (and the others who have also suffered this problem) that the baseline problem has been addressed and you'll be good to go for tens of thousands of miles.  Would say hundreds of thousands of miles.  But this is still Harley we're talking about .

There's the engine case part #s and then there's the serial code (Not sure if that's the correct term) for the engine case. Each half of the case has a part # and then the engine has its own code. The engine serial code (?) designates the model year and generally determines what case is used to build an engine for a particular bike. My first 2 engines were 2017 engines. The third engine was a 2018 and this 4th engine is a 2019.

I never recorded the engine case part numbers on the earlier engines. What part numbers did you have 2017 & 2018?