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Author Topic: Glad it wasn't a beehive spring.  (Read 2300 times)

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HD Street Performance

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Re: Glad it wasn't a beehive spring.
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2018, 09:20:32 AM »

Yes
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TorqueInc

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Re: Glad it wasn't a beehive spring.
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2018, 11:43:31 PM »

Very rare

Far more broken retainers than springs

What do you suspect caused it?
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MCE Performance

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Re: Glad it wasn't a beehive spring.
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2018, 02:39:05 PM »

2 sets of heads came in last week for mods.
Upon disassembly of 1 set this is what I found. Installed height within specs. Valve spring open and closed within 7 psi of specs.
I bet the owner never realized he had an issue with the springs. NO other damage. Put the shoe on the other foot, what do you think would have happened if it were a beehive spring ?  >:(
John

Looks like there's some reversion is going on too. btw...
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 03:43:44 PM by MCE Performance »
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MCE Performance

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Re: Glad it wasn't a beehive spring.
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2018, 03:00:38 PM »

Very rare

Far more broken retainers than springs

What do you suspect caused it?

I had an LS Chevy head (similar spring/retainer) in recently where the retainer had
opened up (soft) and the keepers and valve had almost slipped through it. Another
pass and it would have dropped that valve.
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Glad it wasn't a beehive spring.
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2018, 05:08:22 PM »

Very rare

Far more broken retainers than springs

What do you suspect caused it?
Just an oem part at the end of its life cycle. It had 40,000 miles on it, over 20k with a .590 lift cam. It is the third I can remember in 10 years of the heads I have worked on.
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MCE Performance

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Re: Glad it wasn't a beehive spring.
« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2018, 10:27:17 PM »

Got this in today. Broken Beehive.
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MCE Performance

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Re: Glad it wasn't a beehive spring.
« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2018, 10:45:44 PM »

Broke the guide too
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Glad it wasn't a beehive spring.
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2018, 07:51:15 PM »

Another to add to the list. AV&V .650. Others use the same springs, there is no escaping this by brand changes.
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MCE Performance

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Re: Glad it wasn't a beehive spring.
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2018, 12:30:38 PM »

Cryogenic treating the springs and retainers will extend their life. It transforms the austenitic structures
into martensitic structures, which makes them stronger and more ductile (less prone to fatigue failure).

Food for thought...
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Glad it wasn't a beehive spring.
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2018, 12:43:27 PM »

I know the spiel.
Not used on aerospace parts to the best of my knowledge because there is not consistant way to prove the material properties. I remember mondello. A proponent.

Or just use dual springs with TI retainers with the proper pressure.
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Re: Glad it wasn't a beehive spring.
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2018, 01:51:20 PM »

I know guys that cryo everything. Blocks, rods, head studs, pushrods, etc.
My mentor (Darin Morgan) is a big proponent as well. So I take what he tells
me at face value.

The metallurgical theory behind it is rock solid solid, and the results back it up.
 
Now, Weather it's worth the cost is an entirely different subject. But I can get cryo
treatment done for next to nothing (if I ship it off to N.Y. state)
going to look for a local source in the meantime.

After that last failure, I'm going to start treating the springs on my heads.
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johnsachs

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Re: Glad it wasn't a beehive spring.
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2018, 04:26:24 PM »

The safest way to resolve the valve spring problem is simple. Use DUAL SPRINGS. May cost a tad more, may cost a few tenths of 1 horsepower , but it's like buying home owners, or auto insurance.  :o
John
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MCE Performance

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Re: Glad it wasn't a beehive spring.
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2018, 06:58:17 PM »

The safest way to resolve the valve spring problem is simple. Use DUAL SPRINGS. May cost a tad more, may cost a few tenths of 1 horsepower , but it's like buying home owners, or auto insurance.  :o
John

+1

That's an option too!

Although I'd like to point out that beehive spring failures are very rare in the grand scheme of things.
I've seen Two in the last 10 years. There's ALWAYS a chance of something breaking. That's the
nature of high performance. You have a better chance of dying in a crash if you really think about it.

Maybe I'm over-trivializing it, but I'm still going to use beehives because there's far more reasons to
use them than this one reason not to.

Disclaimer: This is JMO

 
 
« Last Edit: September 16, 2018, 07:37:59 PM by MCE Performance »
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Glad it wasn't a beehive spring.
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2018, 02:14:27 PM »

The safest way to resolve the valve spring problem is simple. Use DUAL SPRINGS. May cost a tad more, may cost a few tenths of 1 horsepower , but it's like buying home owners, or auto insurance.  :o
John

Agreed and done
175# seat 390# rate, weight 111g, cam woods 9b
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MCE Performance

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Re: Glad it wasn't a beehive spring.
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2018, 01:29:54 AM »

WOW! nice micrometers, I'm impressed
« Last Edit: September 23, 2018, 02:02:37 AM by MCE Performance »
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