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Author Topic: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020  (Read 2808 times)

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iski

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4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« on: July 30, 2018, 07:39:06 AM »

https://www.harley-davidson.com/us/en/about-us/hd-news/2018/harley-davidson-accelerates-strategy-to-build-next-generation-of-riders-globally.html

From the article:

New Products
Leveraging its industry-leading design and strong manufacturing capabilities, Harley-Davidson plans to offer its most comprehensive lineup of motorcycles, competing in many of the largest and fastest growing segments with a full portfolio of motorcycles across a broad spectrum of price points, power sources, displacements, riding styles and global markets. Highlights include:

Extending the company’s leadership in heavyweight motorcycles by continuing to develop improved, more technologically-advanced Touring and Cruiser motorcycles that will keep existing Harley-Davidson riders engaged and riding longer.
Introducing a new modular 500cc to 1250cc middleweight platform of motorcycles that spans three distinct product spaces and four displacements, starting with the company’s first Adventure Touring motorcycle, the Harley-Davidson™ Pan America™ 1250, a 1250cc Custom model and a 975cc Streetfighter model, all of which are planned to launch beginning in 2020. Additional models to broaden coverage in these product spaces will follow through 2022.

Developing a more accessible, small-displacement (250cc to 500cc) motorcycle for Asia emerging markets through a planned strategic alliance with a manufacturer in Asia.  This new product and broader distribution is intended to fuel Harley-Davidson’s customer access and growth in India, one of the largest, fastest growing markets in the world, and other Asia markets.
Leading the electric motorcycle market by launching Harley-Davidson’s first electric motorcycle, LiveWire™, in 2019 -- the first in a broad, no-clutch “twist and go” portfolio of electric two-wheelers designed to establish the company as the leader in the electrification of the sport. LiveWire will be followed by additional models through 2022 to broaden the portfolio with lighter, smaller and even more accessible product options to inspire new riders with new ways to ride.

Pictures at link of the new models.


« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 08:27:24 AM by iski »
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imoo6170

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Re: 3 New Harleys for 2019
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2018, 07:47:31 AM »

The Streefighter and Custom look ok. May bring on the younger riders that they were hoping to get with the 500 and 750 but never seemed to materialize.
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2018, 08:43:20 AM »


OK, so that's three down, ninety-seven to go on the claimed one hundred new models.  Need to step it up a bit.

Jerry ;)
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iski

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2018, 08:51:46 AM »

HD probably looks at it like this:  Blacked out versions = new models.

A guess - since the blacked out models have been selling they might decide to try oranged out, blued out, greened out, yellowed out, red out, etc. versions.  100 new models would be only 10 "new" models in 10 xxx-out color schemes.

 :nixweiss:

If they decide to color match the tires to the color of the bike I will have to bite my lip until it bleeds in some future parking lots.   ;)
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2018, 09:08:49 AM »

The Pan America looks interesting.
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2018, 09:36:57 AM »

The Pan America looks interesting.

Agreed...

Nothing offered would make me run right out and purchase but, they aren't aiming these toward me.  The Pan American looks, to me, as the best seller of the bunch.  That is, if it holds together off road.

I don't want them to fail.  I hope their plan carries Harley-Davidson on in a positive way and brings more folks into riding.  I'm hoping that all the emphasis on dealer network stated in the article also included improved customer support/care... :2vrolijk_21:

We (me included) have a tendency to lean negative when it comes to the MoCo having lived through many of the past launches and then all the icebergs hit along the way.  We don't want them to fail, we just know it's very easy for them to do so.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 02:49:35 PM by Haird »
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2018, 09:48:55 AM »

JM2C:  Obviously these are aimed at younger riders, so it's nice to see the MoCo doing something besides revamping a Sportster.  I hope HD realizes the price-point needs to be in line with the rest of the market too.  Is anyone looking for an adventure bike or naked crotch-rocket going to pay more than what the rest of the market charges?  In other words, if the MoCo overprices these because "HD" is on the tank, I don't think the buyers will materialize.  Also, these two bikes are going to have to perform well against the competition - a few bad reviews from the motorcycle media can be devastating.  Lastly, lets hope the reliability is there - especially for the adventure bike.  No one wants to get in the middle of Alaska and have an engine sump.

Overall, kudos to the MoCo for branching out of their comfort zone and trying something new.  Time will tell.       
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2018, 09:53:12 AM »

Well stated.  For a new brand to penetrate established markets you need to do something (something important) better than the other brands to have a significant impact.
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iski

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2018, 10:32:35 AM »

When I started riding, early 70s, Harley had dirt bikes that were made in Italy if I recall correctly.  Group of guys I rode with were all on Japanese bikes.  Point is, HD had an entry level bike at that point in time for a market they have ignored for years.

Looks like HD is aiming at BMW & others in the Adventure Touring class.  It's a market they don't address now, should be interesting.  The one that I have the most interest in - not for purchase just curiosity - is the LiveWire.  Electric bikes have a lot of potential, especially for commuters who are looking to save money on transportation and parking space costs.   If HD can innovate in the electric market, that lineup could put them on a new track, and develop the younger rider market.  Would that sell lead sled big touring cruisers eventually?  Some no doubt.  At some point those long distance cruisers could also be electric if battery charging tech continues to improve.

Will wait & see, no reason to go blow smoke up the masses' asses yet, but it does look HD is looking seriously to the future.  Price points, reliability, comfort, performance, and comparisons to whatever else is out there on these new models will tell the tale as always of success/failure.  I wish them well on their endeavors to persevere.
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2018, 11:26:05 AM »

Agreed...

Nothing offered would make me run right out and purchase but, they aren't aiming these toward me.  The Pan America looks, to me, as the best seller of the bunch.  That is, if it holds together off road.

I don't want them to fail.  I hope their plan carries Harley-Davidson on in a positive way and brings more folks into riding.  I'm hoping that all the emphasis on dealer network stated in the article also included improved customer support/care... :2vrolijk_21:

We (me included) have a tendency to lean negative when it comes to the MoCo having lived through many of the past launches and then all the icebergs hit along the way.  We don't want them to fail, we just know it's very easy for them to do so.

There is some very strong competition in the ADV bike market. You have the following already slugging it out;

BMW R800GS and R1200GS (Market Leader)
KTM 1190/1290 Adventure and Super Adventure
Honda Africa Twin CRF1000
Ducati Multistrada 1200
and some others like Kawasaki and Yamaha.

HD would have to include a lot of "new to Harley" technology.
- Electronic Suspension Adjustment
- Riding Modes (Offroad, Rain, Sport, Highway)
and as mentioned somewhere above, durability in an offroad environment.

Kudos to HD if they are able to compete in the ADV market. And, this market is shrinking too - in case you were wondering.

Simon

« Last Edit: July 30, 2018, 11:28:07 AM by DesertHOG »
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muddypaws

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #10 on: July 30, 2018, 12:44:19 PM »

Bikes look OK but Harley should have done that 20 years ago....
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2018, 01:53:54 PM »

My my, did we all notice COMPLETE LIQUID COOLING!!!!!!



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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2018, 03:39:03 PM »

From the pictures it looks like they have overhead cams. Hopefully that add to the reliability.

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2018, 03:46:49 PM »

I got a good chuckle out of all of the disclaimers, which were a good chunk of the total article text.
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Haird

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2018, 03:52:52 PM »

That looks to be a chain drive on the Pan American but belt on the other two and Livewire?
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2018, 04:18:36 PM »

So much that is in some or many ways different in the development pipeline all at the same time?  One can (at least potentially) applaud the effort and admire some of the concepts (pre-prototype, vaporware, or something in between though they may be).  Can not help but be concerned about this future in the context of their development history though.  MoCo hasn't proved for a very long time to be able to do one new thing at a time and do it well.  The notion of doing several major efforts at once has to make one's special parts curl up and hide behind his belly button.
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2018, 05:06:14 PM »

The motors look like a VRod motor in disguise
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2018, 08:39:18 PM »

Really hope Harley is successful in there efforts. They will be competing in the most competitive and established categories in the motorcycle industry.

The adventure motorcycle category is well established with brand loyal riders. Many established and proven choices from top brands. Companies with extensive experience.

The sport bike market is not only extremely competitive but price sensitive too! Brands with racing experience and loyal riders.

Harleys number one competitive advantage will be it's large dealer network in the USA, marketing and brand name.

The question is; as Harley becomes more like other brands will it dilute their image?

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2018, 09:14:53 PM »


Harleys number one competitive advantage will be it's large dealer network in the USA,


That's a consideration I'd not had yet.  We know that some of the shops are good.  We also unfortunately know that many are a hazard waiting for a problem to happen.  Imagine those shops with a newly released fleet of newly designed bikes that those shops have zero practical familiarity with.
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scottt

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2018, 10:25:35 PM »

That's a consideration I'd not had yet.  We know that some of the shops are good.  We also unfortunately know that many are a hazard waiting for a problem to happen.  Imagine those shops with a newly released fleet of newly designed bikes that those shops have zero practical familiarity with.
Look at the issues they had with the 14 Rushmore bikes. Leaking coolant, hydraulic brake issues, radiator caps, water pumps.

This was a simple update compared to these bikes. A truly competitive sport bike is going to need clutchless shifting, traction control, high HP, advanced electronic systems and that is based on today. Two years from now competing is going to be much tougher. Competitors are going to prepare for these bikes to arrive.

Bottom line; motorcycle riders and customers will benefit from the competition.

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2018, 09:37:35 AM »

This is role reversal of the "Honda Davidson" (Shadow Ace) the Yamaha Royal Star. 
All of Harley's competitors tried to throw a heavy weight cruiser into the market.

None of them competed with the Iconic sound or brotherhood of the Harley. 

Sure they sold some but they were not going to reinvent the Yamaha corp or Honda corp with these heavy weight cruiser offerings.

The buyer of an adventure bike does not need or care or want to be part of the iconic black leather, bandanna wearing, Harley crowd.
They simply want the best machine for the best price and they don't care about nostalgia or the company history or company character.

If Harley wanted to succeed in this market they had one choice and one choice only.  They needed to buy KTM or Husqvarna.  Then simply put the Harley badge on the tank.

As far as dealership network to support the "after sell" of "other than v-twin" "black leather Harley" it just simply does not work.  I have seen it first hand during the Buell era and even the
v-rod was snub by most.

Harley dealerships just are not inviting places to the NON old guy, NON heavy metal, NON black leather crowd! 

The eye rolling begins in the parking lot and continues to the service manager to the mechanic... even the sales staff ignored the Buell crowd.

It is simply annoys 98% of the Harley crowd and for the new Pan America owner he feels like he does not fit in. 

Hopefully HD has a plan to mix oil and water because I just don't see this approach getting it done.

I hope I am wrong.

   



« Last Edit: July 31, 2018, 09:45:36 AM by guppytrash »
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2018, 04:21:45 PM »

Guppytrash, I agree.  However, the MoCo was between a rock and a hard place.  Unless HD figures out a way to make more Baby Boomers, the future is the next three generations.  I wonder if the MoCo, as you suggested, wouldn't have been better off buying another brand and using that nameplate to push an adventure bike and sport bike line.  HD branding is a victim of its own success - it is forever associated with a certain type of design and rider.  Much like Cadillac let itself become the car of the elderly and Kramer from Seinfeld cannot play another role.         
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2018, 07:02:51 PM »

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2018, 08:05:52 PM »

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2018, 08:53:14 PM »

I would have liked to see a VROD engine in the Street Fighter. They are great with good power and quite reliable.
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2018, 12:00:22 PM »

Guppytrash, I agree.  However, the MoCo was between a rock and a hard place.  Unless HD figures out a way to make more Baby Boomers, the future is the next three generations.  I wonder if the MoCo, as you suggested, wouldn't have been better off buying another brand and using that nameplate to push an adventure bike and sport bike line. HD branding is a victim of its own success - it is forever associated with a certain type of design and rider.  Much like Cadillac let itself become the car of the elderly and Kramer from Seinfeld cannot play another role.       

So true and well said! 

I think Harley would have benefited from buying another brand in many ways.  Separate dealerships targeting the correct crowd for one.

Putting a young person motorcycle in a current HD dealership is much like trying to draw the local College kids to the local Bingo gathering.

On top of that, my guess is HD will think that they can charge a premium price for their new models and most likely the product will be inferior to the current brand X models.

I think a couple of things could really help. 

1. The proper movie role for one of the new model HD's could turn these into an overnight success.  Think: Top Gun and Tom Cruise on the Ninja or even better The Terminator and Arnold on the Fat Boy.  Maybe even more effective than a movie role would be a spotlight role in an Xbox or Playstation game.

2. Harley needs to suck up some break even price points to make sure these are obtainable to the target generation. 
I know that may sound ridiculous to break even or lose money on a product, but if they are truly looking to gain marketshare on a new generation it may take a few years of being more attractive than brand XYZ in price. 

I just wonder if the marketing department is the same old crowd that HD has had in place to sell heavy metal.  If so, time to start a new department with a completely fresh and new crowd. 

 
 
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2018, 06:32:07 PM »

Did anyone catch it may be made in India?
And sold there as well Im sure.
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2018, 08:33:55 PM »

So true and well said! 

I think Harley would have benefited from buying another brand in many ways.  Separate dealerships targeting the correct crowd for one.

Putting a young person motorcycle in a current HD dealership is much like trying to draw the local College kids to the local Bingo gathering.
 

My thoughts exactly when I saw the new models.
A new name under the trade mark of HD opening the window to new and more dealerships.
 
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scottt

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2018, 03:03:10 PM »

The number one adventure motorcycle is the BMW GS line. Number one world wide, these are customers that put function over style, brand, everything.

Honda, KTM, Triumph, Ducati, Kawasaki and I'm sure other brands also sell into this category. Harley is going to have a tough time competing.

Even if Harley builds a good bike they are going to have a heck of a time selling these riders.

The number one target market for Harley is going to end up being there own customers. Guys that have a traditional  Harley and want an adventure bike or sport bike. Didn't go well with the VRod, time will tell.

In my opinion; they should simply focus on building the highest quality HARLEYS. Might make sense to add a watercooled more powerful touring line with a more modern frame and suspension.  But what do I know.

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2018, 12:11:20 PM »

The number one adventure motorcycle is the BMW GS line. Number one world wide, these are customers that put function over style, brand, everything.

Honda, KTM, Triumph, Ducati, Kawasaki and I'm sure other brands also sell into this category. Harley is going to have a tough time competing.

Even if Harley builds a good bike they are going to have a heck of a time selling these riders.

The number one target market for Harley is going to end up being there own customers. Guys that have a traditional  Harley and want an adventure bike or sport bike. Didn't go well with the VRod, time will tell.

In my opinion; they should simply focus on building the highest quality HARLEYS. Might make sense to add a watercooled more powerful touring line with a more modern frame and suspension.  But what do I know.

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I've seen something like this in the Aviation Electronics marketplace. The leader, Harley in this case, produces a competing product in an adjacent market and then sells at a loss to gain market share. In the Aviation market, the market leader started reducing prices to hold market share. This might be a good thing for those who want to own a GSA.

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2018, 06:19:21 PM »

Pan american----------very interesting------I have to say I hope they succeed , but venturing into this market they better have their stuff together. I recently bought a ktm 1290 adventure s and I must say it is hands down the best bike Ive seen or ridden in a long time. Outstanding electronics , suspension, comfort , performance , handling and cost less than half what my road glide cost. Gets better mileage too and is a 160 HP bike. With HD having no dakkar , or baja experience no R&D in that market  I don't understand how they intend to produce an adventure bike that can compare with whats available now. They better have good suspension (what they have now sucks) be in the 500 pound range for a 1250 cc bike(all the other available comparable models are) and be nimble , quick, and comfortable. Best of luck to them , it will be interesting to see. The one disadvantage I see in the adventure market is seat height. The lowest ones that are any good have a 33.5 inch seat height. Mine is 34.5-----problem for short guys. It can be done , you just have to learn the techniques. Most Pro MX guys are short and their works bikes are very tall------35 or 36 in most cases---------. Again ,I hope they know a home run, no one wants to see them go broke I don't think.
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HighOnHD

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2018, 08:40:04 PM »

I find it interesting that MoCo does essentially the very thing that a handful of posters on this site have been calling for for many years (namely do something to entice post Baby Boomer generations) and now that they are doing it they say it will be impossible. I suppose producing these new bikes will take something beyond rocket science! I don’t think so.

I look at it a little differently. MoCo still has a good market share and financial position. It is better to do something like this while they are still sound. They are not making a last ditch effort to survive here. They truly are moving to expand and attract other buyers. Buyers that are NOT stuck on motorcycles that shake, and look like a HARLEY. They are looking at moving on from the buyers that insist on one hand that their bike remain air cooled, but produce more and more HP, while at the same time remain reliable.

The way I see it they are in many respects “cuttng the cord”!! Maybe they have had enough of the whiney pain in the ass complaining crowd typified by a small handful of posters on this website, and have decided to move on to the next generation or two. I’m not saying those next generations are going to be any less of a pain, but at least they can do what is REQUIRED to try and satisfy them without any regard to the aforementioned fine Harley buyers.

They can still continue the current OLD generation of bikes, and now they have free rein to do as they please to satisfy others.

JMHO
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2002FXDWG3

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2018, 08:49:38 PM »

I'm with those who say that they need to fix their current reliability issues first.  If they can do that, yeah, then get into something else, but don't "dabble" - do it right.  But history has proven deviations from their core products has not been sustainable (Buell and V Rod).  The idea of owning a separate brand to go after other markets might make sense.
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Fatboy

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2018, 04:08:57 PM »

The MOCO needs a product to compete with the new BMW K1600B "Bagger" offering which is light years ahead in technology, performance, reliability and at a very reasonable price point too boot. :soapbox:

longlast

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2018, 07:47:02 PM »

I've always admired the look and sound  of Harley Davidson.  I'm glad I was finally able to get my long dreamed of Harley Davidson despite  the work and cost I've had to put into it to make it a more reliable runner I'm still happy.

Looking at the 2019 Electric livewire  "where did Harley  go?" It looks just like every other street zipper . Maybe I'm just getting too old and just can't see it  :-\

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scottt

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2018, 08:33:12 PM »

Funny you mention this; I was a 28 year Harley owner, my last HD was a 14 Limited. Decided to buy a new 2018 bike, compared the Road Glide and the BMW K1600B or Bagger, similar cost but no comparison on any level. I bought the BMW and never looked back.

Had Harley upgraded the touring line with suspension similar to the new softails, installed the 114 inch motor standard and upgraded features, I would have bought the Harley. While it's now to late to bring me back, I hope they upgrade the 19s so they are more competitive.

Still like Harley and want them to succeed, in the meantime I'm loving the BMW bagger. Nothing like a straight 6cyl with 160hp! Stock.attached to world class suspension and frame. You gotta ride one to understand what I'm talking about.
The MOCO needs a product to compete with the new BMW K1600B "Bagger" offering which is light years ahead in technology, performance, reliability and at a very reasonable price point too boot. :soapbox:

Sent from my SM-J327T using Tapatalk

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CCW RIDER

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2018, 10:49:59 AM »

Has anyone seen the new 2019 grandstand paint on streetglides and roadglides? Who in they're right mind pay 7 thousand for an ugly paint job?
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Twolanerider

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #37 on: August 11, 2018, 04:59:33 PM »

Has anyone seen the new 2019 grandstand paint on streetglides and roadglides? Who in they're right mind pay 7 thousand for an ugly paint job?

Made me go find it.  Not a fan. 
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Fired00d

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #38 on: August 11, 2018, 05:18:51 PM »

Has anyone seen the new 2019 grandstand paint on streetglides and roadglides? Who in they're right mind pay 7 thousand for an ugly paint job?
This the one - Harley-Davidson’s 2019 Color Shop Limited Series Grandstand Paint Set?

 :pumpkin:
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #39 on: August 11, 2018, 10:30:19 PM »

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charles05663

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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #40 on: August 11, 2018, 10:41:57 PM »

It is like paying 7 grand for the privilege to advertise for Harley. I will pass.

 :oops: :nixweiss:
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2018, 07:32:16 AM »

Not my favourite colour for a custom.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2018, 08:24:02 AM by Aussie »
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2018, 08:54:48 AM »

The MOCO has lost touch with the individual customer and caught up in their own legacy within. The M8 may be the right engine platform for the classic air cooled engines until the patent runs out on that, proprietary is in their mission statement.

The new steps to expand the offerings outside their current customer base is a bold move and I sincerely wish them well. Two wheel riders are passionate to a fault sometimes and it requires confidence in what's under you, unless it hangs on the wall.

How about some ski-doos  :bananarock:
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Re: 4 New Harleys for 2019-2020
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2018, 09:38:48 AM »

$7,100 plus an additional cost for the inner fairing.  So, you might as well say $8k with the inner fairing.  Tax and labor, add another grand.  Now you're at $9k.  Add a matching tour pack (if one's not available, then custom paint to match), that's another grand....for a $10k total.  At that price-point, I'd be more inclined to buy a black bike, have it custom painted, and have a "one-of-kind."
« Last Edit: August 13, 2018, 09:32:20 PM by Mark »
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