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Author Topic: Which rebuild after 110 seizure  (Read 730 times)

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ben31

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    • CVO1: FLSTNSE, CVO Softail Deluxe 2014
Which rebuild after 110 seizure
« on: November 30, 2018, 07:19:55 AM »

I have to rebuild my 110 and I wonder what engine to go for.

Long story made short: 3500mi after my dealer changed cams, tappets, oil pump, pushrods, and one valve because of a bad noise, the rear cylinder seized. He didn't want to repair under warranty and after a long conflict, I had to get back my bike, after paying disassembly and a lot of caretaking costs...

So the rear piston scored badly, piston skirt is damaged, rings are welded, lower end of cylinder is scored and with a thin crack.
As the engine was still running, I believe the crankshaft didn't suffered, and would perfer not to change it...

My plan is, for now, to replace cylinders, pistons and cams.
I could go for another 110 either by SE or an aftermarket provider, but I could take advantage of this situation to begin a cool upgrade, to 113 or 117 (or 124?)

I have seen several possibilities and would like an advice:

- SE 117 kit (92500051): drop in, no modification (case boring)
- S&S 117 (910-0474): .060 shorter cylinder: have to modify TB ?
- Zippers 1117 (520-417S): .045 longer cylinder: have to change TB?
- Revolution performance 117 (DragSpe 0903-0897)
- Suburban Harley solution 4-1/8 SE cylinder + Mahle pistons
- Fuel Moto 113 kit for CVO (FMS-11-X): with cams, lifters, pushrods, bearings!

Of course if I need to change the crankshaft, I could stay with a 4-3/8 (S&S, Darkhorse, SE) or go to a 4-5/8 and build a 124... But is it rational on a CVO Softail Deluxe?
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Which rebuild after 110 seizure
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2018, 10:34:55 AM »

Your budget will set the stage for how to proceed. Plus availability of a qualified mechanic and tuner. This is a 100% tear down to get it right including the oil tank out for cleaning.
Choosing the displacement is a function of money again. Many of them include a case bore required. Base gaskets adjust the cylinder height if required. Cometic can make specials if need be.
Need a lot more data to really make an intelligent decision on individual components.
Your expectations for horsepower and torque factor in too.
At the end of the day a set of matched components must be put together and a full motor rebuild including all the balancer stuff disassembled and all bearings replaced plus a full clean and flush.
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ben31

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Re: Which rebuild after 110 seizure
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2018, 11:08:03 AM »

OK, I understand I have to disassembly and clean everything.
Then, the fundation of a good build is a trued and balanced crankshaft. Maybe I can find someone to service the oem crank?
My budget is not very high, so I want to avoid case boring. I believe a CVO case allows various choice anyway, don't it?

I already own the SE camplate and big oil pump (was standard one in my bike), new lifters, adjustable pushrod from FuelMoto.
I think it would be nice to change the very hard CVO valve springs.

I am not riding very often above 4500 rpm, and I like to have torque at low rpm. With the SE255, I liked riding around 3000 as it was where the engine answers the best.
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Which rebuild after 110 seizure
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2018, 11:30:22 AM »

You are in France and this changes things due to a lot of factors.
Lowest cost would be go back at 110 and get a proper retune or run a Tmax with autotune if there are not good tuners available.
Replace the crank with an S&S replacement, they are true and run perfectly with the stock Mahle pistons for weight.
Replace the lifters with Hylift parts. Check the cam plate / oil pump and take the relief valve out and clean all the passages. It may have survived maybe not. Lifters will have swarf in them.
Next step up is harley 117" kit and a little bigger cam such as the SE585. It will have more of what you want from idle on up.
If you need more help you can PM me, I do send to Europe.
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ben31

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Re: Which rebuild after 110 seizure
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2018, 12:09:19 PM »

Thanks for the proposal and the advices!

As I wrote previously, I have brand new Cam plate/Oil pump, lifters so I won't reuse the ones that from the bike.
It seems cylinders from HD will cost the same, regular 110 or 117 kit, so I will probably choose the bigger, even more so if I change the crank with an S&S.

What do you think of 117 HD cylinders vs 117 S&S ?
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Which rebuild after 110 seizure
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2018, 04:30:40 PM »

Well I like the S&S better but that takes a case bore.
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MCE Performance

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Re: Which rebuild after 110 seizure
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2018, 09:47:53 PM »

That's pretty cool. Sporting an HD in France, you're in a rare group. I lived in England, there weren't many there
either.
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prodrag1320

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Re: Which rebuild after 110 seizure
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2018, 07:38:14 AM »

id go 124",but if that's not in the budget,a 113" build would be the cheapest.we have 113" big bore kits for 595.00

HD Street Performance

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Re: Which rebuild after 110 seizure
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2018, 09:19:33 PM »

It's France, best to buy new parts and avoid machine work.
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ben31

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Re: Which rebuild after 110 seizure
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2018, 04:24:21 AM »

To avoid machine work, I think there are only two solutions left (except if I stay with the 110):
- SE bolt on 117 kit
- Fuel Moto 113 kit
I'm not sure Screamin is the best way to go. OEM 110 cylinders are already very thin, 117 cylinders must be like paper sheet. Reliability?

All the other solutions (S&S ...) require case boring.

With a mechanical friend of mine, I'm trying to find someone with skill and experience able to do the work on the case.
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timo482

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Re: Which rebuild after 110 seizure
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2018, 09:38:42 AM »

A few thoughts a little out of the mainstream:

stock engines tend to last longer - with these engines stronger cranks are warranted, smaller springs [lighter dual springs] if you retain stock displacement and cam you don't need a tune, making the weak spots stronger [crank, springs, lifters, pump] without bumping the engine size and messing with tune will increase longevity, i personally know a guy with 100k on a twin cam.

rather than hopping it up or messing with tune consider gearing. gearing is the biggest bang for your $ you can get. can be done with stock parts and a small grinder, its not as sexy as a 124 but unless you ride over 90 all the time it really wont negatively affect the top end, but make it a rocket to 60. a bit of nail polish on the speedometer with gps corrected speed marks yields the least troubles.
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HD Street Performance

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Re: Which rebuild after 110 seizure
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2018, 09:39:22 AM »

Harley OEM 110 cylinders and mahle pistons are not thin and this is a durable combination at a reasonable corrected compression.
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Dan_Lockwood

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Re: Which rebuild after 110 seizure
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2018, 01:07:39 PM »

rather than hopping it up or messing with tune consider gearing. gearing is the biggest bang for your $ you can get. can be done with stock parts and a small grinder, its not as sexy as a 124 but unless you ride over 90 all the time it really wont negatively affect the top end, but make it a rocket to 60. a bit of nail polish on the speedometer with gps corrected speed marks yields the least troubles.

I did the 30t from 32t mod and I would not recommend it without doing the gussets on the rear swingarm axle slot.  When ground out, the rear of the slot is pretty thin and with the shocks mounted on top of the slot, it could break out on you.

I did the slot and gussets in my garage and for the money, it's the BEST BANG FOR THE BUCK mod I've done.  For two up riding, which I do more than 90% of the time, it really helps in 1st gear and gives around 300 rpms higher in all gears at the same speed as before.  Personally I never had any issues running in 6th gear before the mod, but it is better in 6th at slower highway speeds now.  With the slot mod you use the stock belt, which have proven to be very durable.  The aftermarket shorter belt has failed for almost all that went that route.

Your can buy the 30t from several sources and the HD Trike uses the 30t, so ever HD can supply it for you.

Most tuners have the ability to tweak the math in the ECM for the new gearing on the 30t sprocket.  I use TTS and just read my actual with the iPhone GPS speed and compared to my speedo and then made the change in the program.  Not a bad job with a bit of direction.

I'm probably going to swap out the lifters soon and when I do that I'll do the cams as well, but nothing more mechanically speaking.
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