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Author Topic: Cat removal  (Read 687 times)

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asmith1923

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Cat removal
« on: July 02, 2019, 06:12:59 AM »

Well I’ve decided to go for it and take my grinder and welder to my CAT. Then add fillsac 2.25 and the V&H autotuner. Pics to come...
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Phreakyz

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Re: Cat removal
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2019, 06:52:11 AM »

Goodbye Powertrain Warranty.   

I put fullsac baffles in my Roadglide.   Eliminated the Fiberglas packing altogether.   Left the Cat in place.     Sounded good when on the throttle but too quiet for me at idle.   Over the weekend I pulled the baffles out completely.    Now the bike sounds mean as hell just through the Cat with the stock cans and no baffles.   If I get tired of it or for warranty visits, I can always stick em back in very quickly.    I am not interested in flashing the computer with a tuner until my $43k piece of equipment is out of warranty.     
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asmith1923

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Re: Cat removal
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2019, 06:55:18 AM »

Thanks. The tuner guys say the tuner doesn’t void the warranty but I’m guessing cutting the cat out does.  I gotta cut the baffles out for the full sac anyway, I’ll start there and see how it performs before cutting the cat.

I got on the throttle last night with my lady and it sounded like a souped up Honda Civic. Ugggg
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Haird

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Re: Cat removal
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2019, 07:08:52 AM »

Thanks. The tuner guys say the tuner doesn’t void the warranty but I’m guessing cutting the cat out does.  I gotta cut the baffles out for the full sac anyway, I’ll start there and see how it performs before cutting the cat.

I got on the throttle last night with my lady and it sounded like a souped up Honda Civic. Ugggg

Unless it's the Harley approved and EPA regulated tuner, yes it does...no matter what any dealer/tuner/parts salesman tells you.  The huge EPA fine and court decision beginning August 2017 took care of that issue.

I did the cat removal on both my '12 and '15 but after the two years had passed on both.  The warranty meant something to me and I was not taking any chances of losing that coverage but that's just me... ;D
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grc

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Re: Cat removal
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2019, 07:58:20 AM »

Thanks. The tuner guys say the tuner doesn’t void the warranty but I’m guessing cutting the cat out does.  I gotta cut the baffles out for the full sac anyway, I’ll start there and see how it performs before cutting the cat.

I got on the throttle last night with my lady and it sounded like a souped up Honda Civic. Ugggg

The "tuner guy" is wrong, running anything but the street legal and EPA approved calibrations on a 2017 and later Harley will void your powertrain warranty as soon as H-D detects it, and it is checked every time a dealership connects their equipment to your bike.  IF you install a street legal performance kit from Harley and use their "Street" tuner to load a legal calibration, the warranty is preserved.

As for the catalytic converter, you're right, removing it is also an emissions violation that could be used to void your warranty.  It's not something H-D can determine from just hooking up the dealership equipment to your bike however.  If you want to go that route, you might want to seriously consider buying an aftermarket catless system and putting your stock head pipe assembly in storage.  If your bike needs major engine work under warranty you could always swap the pipes before taking the bike to the dealer.  Once you cut the cat from the stock system there is no going back unless you want to buy another stock system.  Once you go catless, either way, you will need a tune. See the first paragraph for the implications of that.  Research carefully, some systems claim they can put your ECM back to the legal tune and not leave a trace for Harley to detect but that may or may not be true in all cases.  If these bikes were highly reliable and trouble free it might be worth taking a chance; but you can't say that about Harley's products.

Jerry
« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 08:03:40 AM by grc »
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Phreakyz

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Re: Cat removal
« Reply #5 on: July 02, 2019, 08:53:42 AM »

The "tuner guy" is wrong, running anything but the street legal and EPA approved calibrations on a 2017 and later Harley will void your powertrain warranty as soon as H-D detects it, and it is checked every time a dealership connects their equipment to your bike.  IF you install a street legal performance kit from Harley and use their "Street" tuner to load a legal calibration, the warranty is preserved.

As for the catalytic converter, you're right, removing it is also an emissions violation that could be used to void your warranty.  It's not something H-D can determine from just hooking up the dealership equipment to your bike however. If you want to go that route, you might want to seriously consider buying an aftermarket catless system and putting your stock head pipe assembly in storage.  If your bike needs major engine work under warranty you could always swap the pipes before taking the bike to the dealer. Once you cut the cat from the stock system there is no going back unless you want to buy another stock system. Once you go catless, either way, you will need a tune. See the first paragraph for the implications of that.  Research carefully, some systems claim they can put your ECM back to the legal tune and not leave a trace for Harley to detect but that may or may not be true in all cases.  If these bikes were highly reliable and trouble free it might be worth taking a chance; but you can't say that about Harley's products.

Jerry

All Good Advice!
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Fier23

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Re: Cat removal
« Reply #6 on: July 02, 2019, 05:48:30 PM »

My bike just sumped at 700mi. I’m friends with my salesman and he secretly went to find out what I needed to do before they picked the bike up. I had stock exhaust with cat and baffle delete with no tune(I bought the wrong tuner). I had to buy another header pipe and borrow stock mufflers or he said they would have voided me.


Jeremy 2019 Street Glide CVO Black Forest
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asmith1923

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Re: Cat removal
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2019, 04:03:41 PM »

So far I’ve removed the baffles and packing from my old 2017 CVO mufflers and installed them on my 19 and installed the FP3. I’m doing the auto tune now and it might take a few days but WOW. It sounds like a big block dragster and rides like a bat out of hell. Even with the cats.

I’m probably going to put in the Fullsac baffles next week to quiet/refine it a bit.  Don’t want to piss off my neighbors TOO much.

Looks like I can flash the ECM back to stock in a matter of minutes so no dealer/warranty worries.  And slide my stock mufflers back on too.

Thanks for the advice to leave my cats on.
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ScottAL

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Re: Cat removal
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2019, 08:01:37 PM »

When you flash back it still leaves the "Race Tuned" box checked. Still can be seen that you had tuned. TTS is a little different.
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FLSTFI Dave

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Re: Cat removal
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2019, 08:49:03 PM »

My understanding is now Harley can tell if a bike has had a tune loaded, even if returned to stock tune.  Same with TTS and Powervison too, HD can tell it has been flashed. 

I have been told there is a way around it.  Buy the HD street legal tuner.  HD will have a record of the purchase.  Now tune it with say TTS.  If you haver to take the bike in, load the HD tuner tune.  HD will see its been flashed, with a legal tuner....

My understanding is they can not tell how many times its been tuned.  But they will find a legal tune this way.
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SDCVO

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Re: Cat removal
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2019, 12:21:20 AM »

My understanding is now Harley can tell if a bike has had a tune loaded, even if returned to stock tune.  Same with TTS and Powervison too, HD can tell it has been flashed. 

I have been told there is a way around it.  Buy the HD street legal tuner.  HD will have a record of the purchase.  Now tune it with say TTS.  If you haver to take the bike in, load the HD tuner tune.  HD will see its been flashed, with a legal tuner....

My understanding is they can not tell how many times its been tuned.  But they will find a legal tune this way.
that is correct Dave. Same process I went through on my 17 a year ago with the TTS and FM Header and back to the HD Pro Street tuner and stock exhaust before the factory rep came out to test it. They didnt see the TTS or header
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asmith1923

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Re: Cat removal
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2019, 05:08:31 AM »

Well I guess if I’m looking at a few thousand dollars in warranty engine work, buying a second tuner is a no brainer. Thanks for the tips guys.
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electraglideclyde

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Re: Cat removal
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2019, 05:28:23 PM »

Well I’ve decided to go for it and take my grinder and welder to my CAT. Then add fillsac 2.25 and the V&H autotuner. Pics to come...

 You can easily remove the cat without cutting and welding.  I used a boring bit and a pipe.  Took about 30 minutes.
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asmith1923

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Re: Cat removal
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2019, 06:36:39 AM »

After much consideration of Haird and grc comments I decided to leave the cat alone. I swapped out the baffles for the fullsac 2.25 and installed the FP3 tuner and am in auto tune now.

It sounds mean, opened it up ALOT and seems like exactly what I was looking for.

If I need engine warranty work, I’ll most likely buy the H-D tuner and reflash to factory and throw the old factory slip-ons back on.

Seemed like the best compromise for me, since it’s my 4th CVO, each with 15K+ miles with no power train issues.

Thanks again guys


Tony
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