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Author Topic: Dealer closed due to unpaid bills.  (Read 2040 times)

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OBB

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Re: Dealer closed due to unpaid bills.
« Reply #30 on: July 18, 2019, 02:42:23 PM »

That's great insight into how dealers operate in this cut throat environment. However, it doesn't answer the question that if the economy is doing so great and people have much more disposable income, why are sales lagging? Why are sales being made to people who don't qualify? Why aren't people buying Harleys?

Why aren't people taking that all trickle down cash created by this booming economy and buying bikes with it?
The economy IS doing great. Younger generation  is spending over $1,000 for damn cells phones and reusable straws. They could care less about Harleys. That's probably why they're not selling as much as when our generation was growing up.

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OBB

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Re: Dealer closed due to unpaid bills.
« Reply #31 on: July 18, 2019, 02:45:13 PM »

Honda is but one of the competitors taking sales from Harley. So is BMW with the K1600B or Bagger, the new Indian motorcycles, the Yamaha Venture, the new Triumph models. Lotta great competitors, way more today than 10 years ago. Harley is really not competitive in the touring line.

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Let's not get carried away with the Yamaha comment. The Venture and it's sister bike aimed at competing with our beloved RG was a one year flop. Brand New ones are still on dealer floors and they didn't even offer them again this year.

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Ironhorse

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Re: Dealer closed due to unpaid bills.
« Reply #32 on: July 18, 2019, 02:52:25 PM »

They couldn't care less about Harleys. That's probably why they're not selling as much as when our generation was growing up.

Then we as the current crop of riders have failed in passing the love down, and this includes me. Put my name at the top of that list.

I have two sons and both are interested in travelling the world. The eldest is an environmental engineer who just got back from "Yacht Week in Greece", sailing the islands. My youngest is heading into his senior year at UCSD where he is studying Cognitive Science and Computer Science. He prefers to hike the Sierras with a back pack and surf on vacation. As much as I have tried to share my love of motorcycling with them they found their own interests, swimming, surfing, water polo, and world travel.

I missed the boat with them, now I'm waiting on grand kids,....LOL!!!
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Ironhorse

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Re: Dealer closed due to unpaid bills.
« Reply #33 on: July 18, 2019, 02:53:33 PM »

Let's not get carried away with the Yamaha comment. The Venture and it's sister bike aimed at competing with our beloved RG was a one year flop. Brand New ones are still on dealer floors and they didn't even offer them again this year.

Spot on with that, however I don't think the Yamahas grenade at 800 miles.
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Haird

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Re: Dealer closed due to unpaid bills.
« Reply #34 on: July 18, 2019, 03:36:40 PM »

Spot on with that, however I don't think the Yamahas grenade at 800 miles.

Them yamahatchies gotta make it out of the showroom to get to the 800 mile mark, Mark... ;D

Side note:  Sat on the "new" Venture at Sturgis 2017.  BIG BIKE even though it's weight was listed less than a Harley touring.  It felt HUGE to me...predicted to Vickie that it wasn't going to do well at that point.

I'm passing down riding to my daughter (she started at 6) and both oldest grandsons (11 and 10) so, hopefully, they will be riders in their own right some day...not sure they will be purchasing Harley, however...they really like Papaws Chieftain... :2vrolijk_21:

I do predict more HD boutiques closing over the next few months/year.  Fox News had an interesting review of the new Livewire this week.  They were trying their best to justify $30K for an electric motorcycle with a range of 100 miles... ;D
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Re: Dealer closed due to unpaid bills.
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2019, 03:50:43 PM »


Harley will either slim way down, or just move their operations to India or China and try to con those folks into paying more for less.

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flhman

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Re: Dealer closed due to unpaid bills.
« Reply #36 on: July 18, 2019, 05:12:47 PM »

I agree. Since they are close to the Mothership,they sold a lot of bikes at discount and excellent financing to anyone....wonder if that is/ was the issue.
Do some research on the Pomeroys, lots of shady deals gone wrong with these people. When you take someone’s trade in and then don’t pay there balance, that’s bs, then a couple of months later the finance company is hounding you for their money, nice people, NOT.
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scottt

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Re: Dealer closed due to unpaid bills.
« Reply #37 on: July 18, 2019, 08:34:26 PM »

Do some research on the Pomeroys, lots of shady deals gone wrong with these people. When you take someone’s trade in and then don’t pay there balance, that’s bs, then a couple of months later the finance company is hounding you for their money, nice people, NOT.
It's immoral. The customer ends up on the hook for the loan balance for his old bike along with the new one. The trade may have been sold and that buyer is screwed as well.

If the dealer was doing this, he should go to jail IMHO.

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Ironhorse

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Re: Dealer closed due to unpaid bills.
« Reply #38 on: July 18, 2019, 08:36:13 PM »

Do some research on the Pomeroys, lots of shady deals gone wrong with these people. When you take someone’s trade in and then don’t pay there balance, that’s bs, then a couple of months later the finance company is hounding you for their money, nice people, NOT.

That’s not mismanagement, that’s greed driven crime.
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Re: Dealer closed due to unpaid bills.
« Reply #39 on: July 18, 2019, 11:04:25 PM »

Here's what I don't understand.

If the economy is doing so well, the best it's been in a long time, then why are sales lagging? Why might a dealer sell a bike to someone who doesn't qualify? Why does a dealer have to sell a bike to people who don't qualify in order to survive? Where are the people who qualify? There must be qualified buyers out there. Maybe the consumer has gotten wiser and would prefer to spend their money on a reliable Honda, than a grenading M8.

Where are all the folks with $30K in disposable cash ready to buy a new bike?

This is sad all around.
Here's your answer:  HD is in a pickle because its core customers, the guys that bought HDs and saved the company, are dying off or aging out of riding.  The Baby Boomers were the largest generation and HDs resurgence just happened to correspond with the peak of the Baby Boomers' financial sweet spot.  A homerun for the MoCo & this worked great for over 20 years, but...

The millennials are the technology generation and are not drawn to a low tech lawn mower engine motorcycle.  Also, HD let itself get shoe-horned into a certain style that appealed to a certain type rider.  Locking onto the Boomers and their cash was a financial win for HD, but a side effect was Harleys became the "Old Man" motorcycle, just like Cadillac let themselves get pigeon-holed into being the car of the elderly.  Couple all this with some poor workmanship and engine problems and you've got a company in distress, along with the dealers.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2019, 08:16:02 AM by Mark »
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scottt

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Re: Dealer closed due to unpaid bills.
« Reply #40 on: July 18, 2019, 11:39:41 PM »

Here's your answer:  HD is in a pickle because its core customers, the guys that bought HDs and saved the company, are dying off or aging out of riding.  The Baby Boomers were the largest generation and HDs resurgence just happened to correspond with the peak of the Baby Boomers' financial sweet spot.  A homerun for the MoCo. & this worked great for over 20 years, but...

The millennials are the technology generation and are not drawn to a low tech lawn mower engine motorcycle.  Also, HD let itself get shoe-horned into a certain style that appealed to a certain type rider.  Locking onto the Boomers and their cash was a financial win for HD, but a side effect was Harleys become the "Old Man" motorcycle, just like Cadillac let themselves get pigeon-holed into being the car of the elderly.  Couple all this with some poor workmanship and engine problems and you've got a company in distress, along with the dealers.
As a baby boomer that bought his first HD in 89 and last in 14, you are spot on. I've lived it. 12 new Harleys during those years.

Unfortunately i really had my issues with a 07 CVO ultra and my 14 Limited.

Most recent purchase and dream to ride, BMW K1600 B or bagger.

I think this says it all.

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Ironhorse

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Re: Dealer closed due to unpaid bills.
« Reply #41 on: July 19, 2019, 12:17:32 AM »

As a baby boomer that bought his first HD in 89 and last in 14, you are spot on. I've lived it. 12 new Harleys during those years.

Unfortunately i really had my issues with a 07 CVO ultra and my 14 Limited.

Most recent purchase and dream to ride, BMW K1600 B or bagger.

I think this says it all.

There’s a reason the only CVO I wanted was the ‘06 with the 103. It’s coming up on 100k now.
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Re: Dealer closed due to unpaid bills.
« Reply #42 on: July 19, 2019, 07:12:19 AM »

In my thirties, I rode with an older group of guys in their 60's and 70's.  They rode Honda's (usually Wings) and Kawasaki's (Voyagers) and had nothing but disdain for Harley because they lived through the pan, shovel and AMF days...they wouldn't have one if you gave it to them as they wanted to ride not wrench.

While the boomers have carried the MoCo for the past couple decades, the current crop of potential riders see it as stated above, an old man's bike, and one that isn't user friendly in terms of start it, ride it, park it kind of activities.  Maintenance free is NOT what I would call a Harley which gives it some of the appeal to us tinkering kind of folks.  To those that just want to ride, it's not that kind of motorcycle.  It's expensive and behind the rest in tech/design even with that Livewire coming in September...hence the slumping in sales.  I'm not positive this is all of why this dealer closed but I'm fairly sure all of it contributed.
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Re: Dealer closed due to unpaid bills.
« Reply #43 on: July 19, 2019, 11:59:19 AM »

The honorable thing to do when a business can't pay it's bills is to be upfront with creditors. File chapter 11, if the owner knows it's a lost cause you do the honorable thing; first tell the employees you won't be open the next day, have there pay ready along with information that helps them continue health insurance. Next you tell your vendors and the mother company the truth.

You take the bull by the horns and tell the truth, be upfront.

There is no disgrace in failure, there is disgrace in not being truthful. Not being moral. Sadly we are missing a lot of that today.

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Good word Scott, that is exactly the issue!!

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Re: Dealer closed due to unpaid bills.
« Reply #44 on: July 24, 2019, 07:30:19 AM »

Here's what I don't understand.

If the economy is doing so well, the best it's been in a long time, then why are sales lagging? Why might a dealer sell a bike to someone who doesn't qualify? Why does a dealer have to sell a bike to people who don't qualify in order to survive? Where are the people who qualify? There must be qualified buyers out there. Maybe the consumer has gotten wiser and would prefer to spend their money on a reliable Honda, than a grenading M8.

Where are all the folks with $30K in disposable cash ready to buy a new bike?

This is sad all around.

Harleys customer base is aging.  Many are giving up riding.
Harley is plagued with quality issues, and loyal customers know this so are not buying HD, or Keeping the old one and not buying.
Used market is soft, 4 year old CVO is worth about half the cost new, so many are not trading.
Better options out there for less money
Younger generation does not have the interest in motorcycling
Cost is going way up on Harley to get less bike

So with all the above dealers are more desperate to get sales.
They take bigger risks to sell a bike.

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