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[iski]

This is very offensive.

In the age of political correctness, talking about riding an “Indian” is very insensitive to the Native Americans.

Polaris should have dumped the “I” line and kept Victory.

Shame, shame, shame.

 

Change the name of the company to Hemp Diversity motorcycles & introduce a line of CDB motorcycle oils? 

[FLSTFI Dave]

in reading one of the linked articles, they put it on a dyno and got the following:    so everyone who is all gobsmacked about the 122hp, and 128 ft/lb of torque are going to be sorely disappointed to learn that it its measured at the crank, not the rear wheel, and  aren't that far off of hd's numbers

Just like Harley and every other manufacture numbers are at the crank, not the rear wheel.  So the Challenger numbers are slightly above a 2019 CVO 117.

[skratch]

yeah, dave, i totally get that.  it's just that when people are talking about the new bike coming out, most aren't making that connection.  they say, 'but it's got 122 hp', it's way more than your hd...'  just gotta compare apples to apples.

[iski]

It's not all roses and lollipops for Indian - or Harley.  Indian sales stalled out/declined & they have a much much smaller US sales base than HD.
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https://www.marketwatch.com/story/polaris-indian-motorcycle-sales-fall-but-less-than-the-decline-for-harleys-hogs-2019-10-22
Polaris Indian motorcycle sales fall, but less than the decline for Harley's Hogs
Published: Oct 22, 2019 12:33 p.m. ET

Polaris Inc. PII, -2.75% reported third-quarter motorcycle sales that fell more than expected, but they outperformed the declines reported by Harley-Davidson Inc. HOG, -3.04%, leading to Polaris' Indian bikes taking global share from Harley's iconic Hogs. Polaris reported a 3% decline in motorcycle sales to $149.9 million from $155.3 million, compared with the FactSet consensus for an increase to $187.3 million. Although the Indian bike brand lost "a modest amount" of market share in the U.S., international motorcycle sales rose 28%, so the company said global market share for Indian "was up for the quarter." Harley reported third-quarter motorcycle revenue that declined 5.2% to $779.3 million, but beat the FactSet consensus of $749.4 million. Harley said total worldwide retail sales fell 1.2% to 58,522 vehicles, with U.S. sales down 3.6% and international sales up 2.7%. Polaris's stock surged 8.4% in midday trading and Harley shares rallied 6.3%, while the S&P 500 SPX, -0.30% edged up 0.2%.

[dayne66]

  So the Challenger numbers are slightly above a 2019 CVO 117.

Does the Challenger come with sumping and fluid transfer though?

[fastfreddy]

Does the Challenger come with sumping and fluid transfer though?

  nobody knows yet.... has any body bought one yet?  and who buys the first model year anyway  I only wish the best to those that do

[bigchuck]

Well Fred, that was interesting.  As least the first couple minutes because I stopped it after that. 

My message to Matt:  You can't start off by saying you respect all brands and are a motorcycle enthusiast first, a Harley salesman second and then start wearing out one specific brand that is a rival.  Copying Harley Davidson?  Come on, feller.  Who was first?  And, if Indian/Polaris were actually copying the MoCo, why aren't they having sumping/charging/fluid migration/lifter/infotainment/all kinds of piddly, second/third-party supplier quality issues like the MoCo has with their products on a daily basis?  Sounds to me like Polaris has learned from the mistakes of the MoCo instead of copying.  Styling issues aside, Indian makes a very nice product that is selling.

Matt, you gave it a good try but you/momma Harley crying about their peeing in their own Cheerios ain't gonna help the situation...go clear your head and ride that new Livewire...

"Who was first?" Are you serious? Who was first with a fixed fairing between Harley and Indian or Polaris? Harley. Who was first to sell motorcycles between HD and Indian? Indian by a year or so. The only problem is they haven't made an Indian since 1953.
Just because they bought the rights to a name of a company that's been out of business for 50+ years doesn't give Polaris the Indian heritage. No doubt the Challenger is a Road glide copy as much as its name is copied from Dodge or NASA. Another creative thought by Polaris. Polaris makes a good motorcycle however they make a great mower.
If anyone has an extra one of those lighted Indian heads I need one for the front of my Zero-turn.

[OBB]

"Who was first?" Are you serious? Who was first with a fixed fairing between Harley and Indian or Polaris? Harley. Who was first to sell motorcycles between HD and Indian? Indian by a year or so. The only problem is they haven't made an Indian since 1953.
Just because they bought the rights to a name of a company that's been out of business for 50+ years doesn't give Polaris the Indian heritage. No doubt the Challenger is a Road glide copy as much as its name is copied from Dodge or NASA. Another creative thought by Polaris. Polaris makes a good motorcycle however they make a great mower.
If anyone has an extra one of those lighted Indian heads I need one for the front of my Zero-turn.

Funny chit there. If I do end up eventually buying one for a 2nd bike, That damn hood ornament is yours as long as you promise to mount it and take lots of pix.

[TN]

Only reason I'm gun-shy about first year anything is my POS HD 2007 110" twincam engine.  and technically it wasn't even the first year of the twin cam just the 110", it started out 9.8 to 1 compression, suddenly went to 9.2 to 1 to address some of the issues, along with going from .003 acceptable runout on crank to .012 to address some issues. I could be mistaken on some figures but they're close. I did bail out on the 2007, my choice but I'd kept it if it was not such a POS. I did forget about the book HD sent me for my troubles,  and I owe them a fairing.

The scout has a simailar engine as the challenger and seems to be good, the mohawk Indian head just seems fitting for the times. And yes Polaris bought the Indian name at a fire sale but they own it.

Still disappointed on the rollout of the challenger but I'm a motorcycle enthusiast and will follow up.

Just Ride!

[ultrarider123]

"Who was first?" Are you serious? Who was first with a fixed fairing between Harley and Indian or Polaris? Harley. Who was first to sell motorcycles between HD and Indian? Indian by a year or so. The only problem is they haven't made an Indian since 1953.
Just because they bought the rights to a name of a company that's been out of business for 50+ years doesn't give Polaris the Indian heritage. No doubt the Challenger is a Road glide copy as much as its name is copied from Dodge or NASA. Another creative thought by Polaris. Polaris makes a good motorcycle however they make a great mower.
If anyone has an extra one of those lighted Indian heads I need one for the front of my Zero-turn.

Gosh Chuck, hate much?

I don't believe my comments were directed at you.  They were directed toward Matt's rantings in his video...a format that he has every right to use and I have every right to respond to since he posted it publicly.  Yes, you have the same in responding to my posting.

My response to your comments:  Indian was the first of the two companies.  Indian had the first twin of the two companies.  Both of them competed with each other over the years in all kinds of arenas with both winning and losing until Indian gave up in 1953.  Rebounding and comebacks are part of both companies histories.  Harley almost died twice but was bailed out the first time and took things in their own hands  the second (with the help of Mr. Reagan) to remain in business even though the name changed for a while ('69-'84?) from Harley Davidson to AMF-Harley Davidson...and boy, weren't those fun days...good golly, remember Aermacchi?.  So each company has had their battles, lost, fought back and continue to survive.  It just took Indian a while longer to return.  There is no reason to bicker with bitterness toward either brand...which is why I commented as such to Matt's video.  We should all be loyal to the sport of motorcycles and enjoy the wind in our faces...no matter which fairing and/or windshield is pushing it for you.

Hope this helps with any confusion...have a great, safe rest of your day and weekend and keep it between the ditches...

[mark]

"Who was first?" Are you serious? Who was first with a fixed fairing between Harley and Indian or Polaris? Harley. Who was first to sell motorcycles between HD and Indian? Indian by a year or so. The only problem is they haven't made an Indian since 1953.
Just because they bought the rights to a name of a company that's been out of business for 50+ years doesn't give Polaris the Indian heritage. No doubt the Challenger is a Road glide copy as much as its name is copied from Dodge or NASA. Another creative thought by Polaris. Polaris makes a good motorcycle however they make a great mower.
If anyone has an extra one of those lighted Indian heads I need one for the front of my Zero-turn.

Applying logic on this site can be a daunting task...Lamborghini was originally a tractor company, went bankrupt in the 70's, was bought by Chrysler and is currently owned by VW.  To take your logic and apply to Lamborghini, one would have to conclude they haven't made a Lamborghini since the 70's, they are nothing but VWs or Chryslers anyway, and does anyone have a Lamborghini logo for my tractor?  However, your post did make me wonder who made lawn mowers first...Polaris or HD?

         

[iski]

Wonder when this argument  discussion will switch to Who Makes the Best Motorcycle  t shirt? 

In my opinion the best chain saw manufacturer that also makes motorcycles in Husqvarna - as best I can tell Stihl has so far refused to make a motorcycle.

Polaris was the first snowmobile manufacturer (1954) and continues to manufacture snow machines.  Harley during the AMF years had a snowmobile from 1972-75.  No doubt Polaris is the best snow mobile company that also makes a motorcycle in my mind, but some could quibble with that opinion no doubt.

[Phreakyz]

My Very First Bike was an Indian...

[skratch]

bet you wish you still had it....

[RivRaptor]

I'll say one thing for the new Indian it has sure livened up the discussions / posts around here.  Lets hope it has the same affect at HD!