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[110tHunDer]

 
OK, guys, bike's been doing this since new, but I hadn't thought much about it until I pulled the plugs the other day to see what the color looked like since the cam install and dyno tune.  The front one looks pretty good, I think, but take a look at the rear one.  I think it is valve guides.  What do you guys think?

The bike has just shy of 17,000 miles on it and the plugs have about 1,300.  Whenever I would change plugs on this bike, the rear one would always be sooty and a little damp.  It's never seemed to affect performance and the bike has never seemed to use oil.  When we were in Maggie Valley last fall, Unbalanced (Harry) said he could see a whiff of smoke every once in awhile when I would get on the throttle out of the left pipe (rear).  I did not think much about it at the time, but no doubt the two are related.  I've not seen any smoke at idle or at start-up and no one else on the rides down there mentioned seeing any smoke out of the bike, so I'm thinkin' it's not toooooooo bad.

If I'd have pulled these suckers after getting back from Maggie Valley last fall, I might have tried to have something done over the winter, but since we are now in the midst of riding season, I plan to keep on running it and keep an eye on both the plugs and the oil usage.

Let me know what you guys think.

FRONT PLUG:

[110tHunDer]

 
REAR PLUG:

[Twolanerider]

Brian, if you're seeing smoke as a result of valve guides the two times it is a tell tale are when you first start the motor or when you step on it from an even RPM.  If it blows a little smoke at those two times, and only those two times, assume valve seals.

[IronButt]

What about a bad MAP? Could this be a bad air fuel mixture for the rear cylinder?

[110tHunDer]

What about a bad MAP? Could this be a bad air fuel mixture for the rear cylinder?

Perhaps, but I've sort of discounted that since it has been doing this since new.  Also, that would not explain the dampness . . . . it's definitely not gasoline since there is basically no odor to the plug, and both cylinders were tuned individually.

[IronButt]

Wanted to make sure, so I hit the web and came up with this.

http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/pages/technical/diagnosis.htm

The reason I am suggesting this you said the plugs looked this way since new. If it just started I would say worn valve guides.

Let us know...

[Twolanerider]

Don't forget Brian, Harley had an admitted valve guide/valve seal issue in the 04s and early 05s.  You might just have one of those.

What's the oil consumption?  Sometimes if it ain't broke it's hard to justify fixing it.  Is it in the head that was replaced; or the other one?

[IronButt]

Perhaps, but I've sort of discounted that since it has been doing this since new.  Also, that would not explain the dampness . . . . it's definitely not gasoline since there is basically no odor to the plug, and both cylinders were tuned individually.

My first MAP had to be redone on my 04 and it also had dual reinharts. The tech just go it wrong. My shop guarantees its maps. It would not hurt to have it checked. Again You said since new, not just started.

I cant explain the wet plug. I do know gravity is a hard working guy, never takes a day off, and oil doesn't typically run up hill..

[110tHunDer]

My first MAP had to be redone on my 04 and it also had dual reinharts. The tech just go it wrong. My shop guarantees its maps. It would not hurt to have it checked. Again You said since new, not just started.

I cant explain the wet plug. I do know gravity is a hard working guy, never takes a day off, and oil doesn't typically run up hill..

The tune that is in the bike is only as old as the set of spark plugs I photographed above, or about 1,300 miles.  So, the bike's had two different tunes (the first one was a canned Stage 1 map for the first 15,000 or so miles), but the rear plug has been coming up black and damp with both tunes.  Therefore, it's difficult for me to blame the tuning on the rear cylinder.

[110tHunDer]

Don't forget Brian, Harley had an admitted valve guide/valve seal issue in the 04s and early 05s.  You might just have one of those.

What's the oil consumption?  Sometimes if it ain't broke it's hard to justify fixing it.  Is it in the head that was replaced; or the other one?

Don, as far as oil comsumption, it's never seemed to drop from where it ended up on the dipstick after an oil and filter change.  It was down about 1/2 quart when I got back from MV, but the variable in that is that I lost that oil cooler line down there and had the oil changed at the Waynesville, NC dealer and never checked the level until I got back home.  So, I'm not too sure that it wasn't low to begin with.  I'm going to keep a much closer eye on it now, though.

This is the head that was replaced, but they only replaced the casting.

[IronButt]

Don, as far as oil comsumption, it's never seemed to drop from where it ended up on the dipstick after an oil and filter change.  It was down about 1/2 quart when I got back from MV, but the variable in that is that I lost that oil cooler line down there and had the oil changed at the Waynesville, NC dealer and never checked the level until I got back home.  So, I'm not too sure that it wasn't low to begin with.  I'm going to keep a much closer eye on it now, though.

This is the head that was replaced, but they only replaced the casting.

Does one exhaust have moore soot inside than the other?

[Twolanerider]

This is the head that was replaced, but they only replaced the casting.

With that being the case though new guides would have been installed and (you'd have to hope) new valve seals also.

Brian, you're already bingo on warranty.  As much as the look of it might annoy you, so long as you've got no consumption issues and it's not actually fouling the plug I'd be hard pressed to tear it apart for just that.  Yours sure as hell runs good.  If it stays doing so it's hard not to just leave it be.

[hd-dude]

With that being the case though new guides would have been installed and (you'd have to hope) new valve seals also.

Brian, you're already bingo on warranty.  As much as the look of it might annoy you, so long as you've got no consumption issues and it's not actually fouling the plug I'd be hard pressed to tear it apart for just that.  Yours sure as hell runs good.  If it stays doing so it's hard not to just leave it be.

I agree with Don on this, leave it be unless you start consuming oil......

[IronButt]

I have given this much thought  and consideration, hell I even asked Buddha. I have come up with the best solution,,

I am going to let my mechanic figure this one out 


TTYL,
Steven

[110tHunDer]

With that being the case though new guides would have been installed and (you'd have to hope) new valve seals also.

Brian, you're already bingo on warranty.  As much as the look of it might annoy you, so long as you've got no consumption issues and it's not actually fouling the plug I'd be hard pressed to tear it apart for just that.  Yours sure as hell runs good.  If it stays doing so it's hard not to just leave it be.

I agree with Don on this, leave it be unless you start consuming oil......

That's what I'm thinkin', guys.  Now, if my mechanic looked like SJPZZZ's, I'd be running down to her with every little thing I thought could be wrong (even making stuff up once in awhile!).  But he doesn't, so I'm liking the "leave it be" solution, at least for now.

I'll just keep an eye on the oil level and maybe pull the plugs after awhile longer to see what they look like -- just generally monitor the situation, but not let it ruin riding season!

Thanks!