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[kojak]

And, them when I got to the “F&I guy” to do the paperwork, he tells me “that price is for financing” and if I pay cash, I lose one of the discounts!  Never heard that before…. 🤪

Thats a very common tactic in auto/bike sales. Dealers get a small kickback if they use manufacturer sponsored financing. I usually say ok and then pay the vehicle off when the loan is finalized. With Harleys, some dealers also have a small bonus for the sales person if the buyer makes 2 or 3 payments before the loan is paid off.

[kojak]

More context:
Global Motorcycle Sales — 2025 (Estimated Units & Growth)
Rank Manufacturer Approx. Units Sold in 2025 Approx. YoY Growth (vs 2024) Notes
1 Honda ~19.4 million ~+6 % Continues as the world’s largest motorcycle maker.
2 Hero MotoCorp ~5.9 million ~+7 % India’s top brand globally.
3 Yamaha ~4.6 million ~+4 % Strong in both scooters and motorcycles
4 Yadea ~4.3 million ~-13 % China EV-two-wheeler leader.
5 TVS Motor ~3.7 million ~+12 % Fast growth in key markets.
6 Bajaj Auto ~3.1 million ~+9 % Major exporter, strong in commuter segments.
7 Suzuki ~2.0 million ~+6 % Established global presence.
8 Italika ~1.3 million ~+36 % Latin America staple.
9 Zongshen ~1.0 million ~+3 % Chinese OEM.
10 Royal Enfield ~0.95 million ~+5 % Mid-size niche specialist. 
BMW Motorrad ~202,563 ~-3.7 % Premium German motorcycle brand, ~200 k units.
Triumph ~140,000+ ~+3.6 % Premium British brand continuing modest growth.
Harley-Davidson ~132,500 ~-12 % Flagship U.S. cruiser maker with declining shipments.
Polaris (Indian Motorcycle) ~25,000–30,000 proj. ~-? % Polaris is selling its Indian business; Indian sales have been declining (~14 k in H1 2025).

I dont think the story is written yet. Yes, "Harley is in a transition phase: trying to stabilize and reset the business with leaner production, financial discipline, and a slower paced recovery rather than rapid growth." Running a company that sells 135k motorcycles is very different from 2006 when they shipped 350k to the dealers. Its definitely going to be a much smaller, niche manufacturer with a devoted fan base. The new CEO understands this I believe and isnt chasing the holy grail to recapture irrevocably lost sales due to demographics and cost pressures. They can be right sized and continue as a profitable public corporation. Fewer dealers, fewer employees, fewer models. Getting out from under the tariffs would certainly help.

[Ironhorse]

More context:
Global Motorcycle Sales — 2025 (Estimated Units & Growth)
Rank Manufacturer Approx. Units Sold in 2025 Approx. YoY Growth (vs 2024) Notes
1 Honda ~19.4 million ~+6 % Continues as the world’s largest motorcycle maker.
2 Hero MotoCorp ~5.9 million ~+7 % India’s top brand globally.
3 Yamaha ~4.6 million ~+4 % Strong in both scooters and motorcycles
4 Yadea ~4.3 million ~-13 % China EV-two-wheeler leader.
5 TVS Motor ~3.7 million ~+12 % Fast growth in key markets.
6 Bajaj Auto ~3.1 million ~+9 % Major exporter, strong in commuter segments.
7 Suzuki ~2.0 million ~+6 % Established global presence.
8 Italika ~1.3 million ~+36 % Latin America staple.
9 Zongshen ~1.0 million ~+3 % Chinese OEM.
10 Royal Enfield ~0.95 million ~+5 % Mid-size niche specialist.
BMW Motorrad ~202,563 ~-3.7 % Premium German motorcycle brand, ~200 k units.
Triumph ~140,000+ ~+3.6 % Premium British brand continuing modest growth.
Harley-Davidson ~132,500 ~-12 % Flagship U.S. cruiser maker with declining shipments.
Polaris (Indian Motorcycle) ~25,000–30,000 proj. ~-? % Polaris is selling its Indian business; Indian sales have been declining (~14 k in H1 2025).

I think Kojak said it best "Getting out from under the tariffs would certainly help".  Who amongst us didn't see that coming.  But truth be told HD or any other business suffering under the tariffs can't expect help in that area. Talks of bailouts, be it for farms, HD or other business is just that, talk.  This nation is wedded to the tariffs and we'd just better suck it up and get used to it. 

Pretty much all those other successful motorcycle companies are operating with long term vision.  They have everything from small entry level bikes to big expensive tourers. I think HD did themselves a disservice by getting rid of the Dyna line and relying solely on Touring and Softail platforms.  The Dyna was a nice niche bike that fit nicely between the Sportster and Touring.  But it doesn't matter anyway, all new HDs are way over priced and as was discussed earlier purchasing new is as enjoyable as being in the dentists chair.  Besides the market is flooded with a lot of used low mileage bikes already tuned and modified.