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[copout221]

Hey CO, you can do the job without removing the rocker boxes, by using the adjustable pushrods, as the dealer stated. There are known issues with the rocker box clearance, even in stock form. Your choice would be to have them removed and clearanced, or let them do the job their way and clearance them under w.....ty if it becomes necessary. The first way, you know the job is done right, but you paid for it. The second way, you don't pay, but risk doing other damage besides just the rocker boxes. I'd do the job right from the beginning if it were my bike. Hoist!

Yea I agree about having them do it right and pull the rocker box covers to verify there are no clearance issues. I went to my local dealer today and spoke with the G.M (my buddy) who agreed to do the entire job for 6 hours labor which would include pulling the rocker covers/lowers. If there is a clearance issue already they will make a warranty claim and take care of the problem. If that is the case they may be able to charge me less for labor. The only bad part is I will have to wait until May 14th before my bike can go in. Oh well, I will just have to be patient.

[WaSEEG]

Not knowing the 110 and how it differs from the 103, the main reason that us 103 people went with gear drive is to eliminate the cam chain tensioner failures that were happening regularly

While the cam chain tensioner issue was important, I wanted the increase in torque and the improved rideability that went with it.  I was not disappointed.

Dan

[Rhino]

Ok, so how will I know if there is a clearance issue after the install? Does the new cam cause the problem or is it already having a clearance problem with the stock setup (how do I know) ? This is going to be a major issue for me when it comes to getting this covered under warranty. In addition, the dealer quoted another six hours of time to pull the heads and do the grinding. How can that take six hours ? I could probably do it faster !!! This is really confusing, I may have to call John at Zippers to discuss this issue.

I am already running the TMAT and have the new map downloaded for when the new cam is installed. What a PITA this is becoming.

The whole job in Harley Speak is 6 hours on their books, not for clearancing alone. 

Rhino

[copout221]

The whole job in Harley Speak is 6 hours on their books, not for clearancing alone. 

Rhino

They want to charge six hours to install the cam and pushrods. That does NOT include doing anything in the upper part of the motor. Correct me if I am wrong but don't you have to remove the tank and remove the rocker covers to check for proper clearance ??

    MAN I wish I knew how to do this....I am handy but this is way beyond my capability 

[Hoist!]

They want to charge six hours to install the cam and pushrods. That does NOT include doing anything in the upper part of the motor. Correct me if I am wrong but don't you have to remove the tank and remove the rocker covers to check for proper clearance ??

    MAN I wish I knew how to do this....I am handy but this is way beyond my capability 

With the right tools, no you don't. You might have to lift it slightly, but it doesn't get removed. I still don't see how they can quote you a cam job, without checking rocker box clearance. It's a normal part of the job, especially on these motors where the stock chit might need clearancing. If they aren't doing that, I wouldn't let these guys touch my bike! Hoist!

[Twolanerider]

With the right tools, no you don't. You might have to lift it slightly, but it doesn't get removed. I still don't see how they can quote you a cam job, without checking rocker box clearance. It's a normal part of the job, especially on these motors where the stock chit might need clearancing. If they aren't doing that, I wouldn't let these guys touch my bike! Hoist!

It's the QDIM (Quick and Dirty Install Method) Howie.  Cut the old pushrods, put in adjustables, put it all back together.  What doesn't blow up (immediately) is good enough.

[copout221]

It's the QDIM (Quick and Dirty Install Method) Howie.  Cut the old pushrods, put in adjustables, put it all back together.  What doesn't blow up (immediately) is good enough.

 Thats exactly what they want to do..NOT ON MY $34,000 BIKE !!! 

[Twolanerider]

Thats exactly what they want to do..NOT ON MY $34,000 BIKE !!! 

CO, that's one reason I didn't mind at all using those extra heavy very stiff "Pro Taper" pushrods from Zippers.  Apparently there really is little or nothing that improves on the product.  But, even though they're adjustable, they won't fit without having the top off.  Since I would never have done the cam job without taking the top off to eyeball everything anyway it just didn't matter.  QDIM too often leads to ASS OR  (Ass Sitting Side of Road) later on.

[copout221]

CO, that's one reason I didn't mind at all using those extra heavy very stiff "Pro Taper" pushrods from Zippers.  Apparently there really is little or nothing that improves on the product.  But, even though they're adjustable, they won't fit without having the top off.  Since I would never have done the cam job without taking the top off to eyeball everything anyway it just didn't matter.  QDIM too often leads to ASS OR  (Ass Sitting Side of Road) later on.

Thanks, I received the cams and pushrods yesterday. The rods seem very high quality compared to the HD brand that the dealer was trying to sell me. I just wish I could find a reputable installer who will NOT cut corners OR rob me blind. Don't get me wrong, I have no issue paying to have the clearance issues checked / resolved BUT I will not be charged another six hours of labor to do this. I have to draw the line somewhere. Besides, the dealer who was able to do the job next week called me today and asked me to take the bike soemwhere else because their "A" mechanics refused to the do the job to my specifications and did not want to work with Zippers products. They only felt comfortable working with HD and SE stuff. They can pound sand and are lucky I don't post the name and location of them on this forum.

[nixobilly]

copout221,

I believe I have read in several threads here that Bumpus HD in Memphis has a top-notch service guy, why dont you give them a call, it might be worth your time to take your bike there since you are pretty close.

Mark

[Hoist!]

Thanks, I received the cams and pushrods yesterday. The rods seem very high quality compared to the HD brand that the dealer was trying to sell me. I just wish I could find a reputable installer who will NOT cut corners OR rob me blind. Don't get me wrong, I have no issue paying to have the clearance issues checked / resolved BUT I will not be charged another six hours of labor to do this. I have to draw the line somewhere. Besides, the dealer who was able to do the job next week called me today and asked me to take the bike soemwhere else because their "A" mechanics refused to the do the job to my specifications and did not want to work with Zippers products. They only felt comfortable working with HD and SE stuff. They can pound sand and are lucky I don't post the name and location of them on this forum.

CO, if you're putting cams in, you're blowing your engine w....ty anyway. Find a really reputable independent shop in your area to do the work. I'm sure there are guys in your area that can recommend one. You don't need the dealer for this, especially if they're willing to use the QDIM method! They can do the cams, Dyno Tune it, and get it running right! Hoist!

[Rhino]

CO, if you're putting cams in, you're blowing your engine w....ty anyway.

Hoist, you are wrong on that one about warranty.  The law in this country won't allow it, the warranty stands on everything except the parts that are non harley.  I don't want to discuss this any further, the dealer can say what they want, but the bottom line is that they would have to determine that the cams, in this case, if there was a problem, was remotely connected to a failure. I think not, I think that the potential problem goes to the installer, and if it was a harley dealer, they must stand behind it. I seriously doubt that the parts are going to fail, unless it was installed improperly.

Rhino

[Hoist!]

Hoist, you are wrong on that one about warranty.  The law in this country won't allow it, the warranty stands on everything except the parts that are non harley.  I don't want to discuss this any further, the dealer can say what they want, but the bottom line is that they would have to determine that the cams, in this case, if there was a problem, was remotely connected to a failure. I think not, I think that the potential problem goes to the installer, and if it was a harley dealer, they must stand behind it. I seriously doubt that the parts are going to fail, unless it was installed improperly.

Rhino

Well, I don't argue w....ty anymore either, but if you take a street legal vehicle and convert it with parts made for "off road use only", I don't think you have much of a leg to stand on. You'd at least be in for a battle. If that dealer is going to perform the crappy job that's been described here, why go thru all of that at all. Get the job done right and don't worry about it! Hoist!

[cigarmike]

That makes sense but the dealer said they would NOT have to go into the upper part of the motor if I used adjustable pushrods. Is this possible or does the rocker covers still have to be removed regardless for a proper install ?
Sorry about the rant !!!

Maybe talk to hd-dude?, he has put in a few cams, with adjustable push rods,  including mine, didnt take that long, it was a little scary watching him pull out a big azz pair of bolt cutters and heading towards my bike, I was thinking WTF !!! lol. it only hurt for a second. Why tear apart the top of the motor unless you think you actually have a clearance problem?, I also saw the chunks of the cam chain tensioners floating around when he got into the enigine. I'd go with gear drive now no matter what after seeing that. GL with how ever you do it.

[Fired00d]

Maybe talk to hd-dude?, he has put in a few cams, with adjustable push rods,  including mine, didnt take that long, it was a little scary watching him pull out a big azz pair of bolt cutters and heading towards my bike, I was thinking WTF !!! lol. it only hurt for a second. Why tear apart the top of the motor unless you think you actually have a clearance problem?, I also saw the chunks of the cam chain tensioners floating around when he got into the enigine. I'd go with gear drive now no matter what after seeing that. GL with how ever you do it.

Mike,
It's times like that when you wish you weren't able to see what the wrench is doing to your bike. As you stated can be awful frightening to see someone coming near your bike w/big a$$ pair of bolt cutters.

You're right on about going to gear drives vs the chain driven cams. The uncertainty of when they tensioners will go out is not worth the risk. The hardest decision was to find the cam/s that I wanted to put in my bike. Then when I found there were some specifically designed for my bike that would bolt in my decision was made.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d