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[diggity]

All,

Took a trip to gatlinburg, tn this weekend..riding the foothills parkway, dragon and other real good riding.

At times in traffic going a few feet at a time for 30-45 minutes...the bike got real damn hot and was pinging...
I thought that it would cut off when trying to go sometime cause it seemed to loose a lot of power as well when it
was pinging.

Bike is an 07 FLHTCUSE2 with SERT-SE-Air and V&H slash-cut's.

Had the dam thing dyno'd with the new stuff just about 3 weeks ago..

Other than those fairly short times in traffic...bike did real good.

Anyone seen this and what is the fix? or is this another 07 issue?

Btw my previous heritage and dyna did not have any of these issues.

thanks

diggity

[evilroadking]

Did you re-map your ignition? I had these isssues with my 07 FLHTCUSE and 80% of it went away after my mods. Still runs a little warmer then my 04 electra glide SE 103 Inch but much cooler than stock form. If you havent done anything with your  ignition, your running very lean.. NOT A GOOD THING..
My mods include Daytona Twin Tec TCFI GEN II ignition with the WEGO AFR set up, SE intake, Rienhardts True duals. Bike runs o.k. but not happy with stock cam, open and closes to damn quick, can't get any top end. My 2004 SE walks all over it. I plan on trying the 211 in next few weeks. I dont know why the 110's run on the hot side. I had a friend with an 06 Ultra he installed the JIMS 120 inch. His temps never run over 240, and thats on a hot day. The MoCo says the 110 run hotter becuause more cubic inches, but dont ask me why the 120 inch runs cooler. There is somthing going on with this motor and i suspect we will here of pre-mature failures as time and miles get clocked on these things. Who knows, maybe there bullet prood and they will last forever..


 

[Chief]

All,

Took a trip to gatlinburg, tn this weekend..riding the foothills parkway, dragon and other real good riding.

At times in traffic going a few feet at a time for 30-45 minutes...the bike got real damn hot and was pinging...
I thought that it would cut off when trying to go sometime cause it seemed to loose a lot of power as well when it
was pinging.

Bike is an 07 FLHTCUSE2 with SERT-SE-Air and V&H slash-cut's.

Had the dam thing dyno'd with the new stuff just about 3 weeks ago..

Other than those fairly short times in traffic...bike did real good.

Anyone seen this and what is the fix? or is this another 07 issue?

Btw my previous heritage and dyna did not have any of these issues.

thanks

diggity

diggity, check out this thread ==> Hot! Hot! Hot! the very same issue is being discussed there.

[diggity]

Thanks for the responses...I have checked out this other thread as well.

not good. buying a IR thermometer tonight and when it comes in I am
checking the head temps.

The timing was supposedly retarded some when bike was dyno'd.

Thanks

[Unbalanced]

Diggity,

instead of checking head temp at the spark plug check it on the back side of the front cylinder where the sensor is in the area of the horn.   This is what the motor sees.   If you have a Race Tuner you could hook up your computer and run in the data mode .. it will tell you what the temperature is that the motor says it is.

[Chief]

Diggity,

instead of checking head temp at the spark plug check it on the back side of the front cylinder where the sensor is in the area of the horn.   This is what the motor sees.   If you have a Race Tuner you could hook up your computer and run in the data mode .. it will tell you what the temperature is that the motor says it is.

Unbalanced, Checking the front jug will only tell you what the ECM sees, not the reality that the rear jusg is running 50+ degrees hotter than the front. If we're going to start seeing heat related failures, I expect we'd see these on the rear jug, so checking that one to get an idea of how hot it runs will yield more meaningful information than duplicating what the ECM reads on the cool cylinder.

We're looking for worst case scenarios in this case.

[grc]

All,

Took a trip to gatlinburg, tn this weekend..riding the foothills parkway, dragon and other real good riding.

At times in traffic going a few feet at a time for 30-45 minutes...the bike got real damn hot and was pinging...
I thought that it would cut off when trying to go sometime cause it seemed to loose a lot of power as well when it
was pinging.

Bike is an 07 FLHTCUSE2 with SERT-SE-Air and V&H slash-cut's.

Had the dam thing dyno'd with the new stuff just about 3 weeks ago..

Other than those fairly short times in traffic...bike did real good.

Anyone seen this and what is the fix? or is this another 07 issue?

Btw my previous heritage and dyna did not have any of these issues.

thanks

diggity

diggity,

From your description it sounds like your problem occurred when you were either sitting still in traffic at idle, or just barely moving in traffic.  This issue became common with the 103's, and only got worse with the 110's.  Bigger engines and leaner mixtures due to tighter EPA regs generate more heat, and nothing was done by the MoCo to improve the low speed cooling capabilities of the new engines.  You may want to have your dealer enable the temp control strategy in the ECM (one time enable, and one time disable if you don't like it, at no charge).  This strategy only takes affect at idle, and includes richening the mixture slightly, lowering the idle speed, and then actually creating a "miss" by not firing one cylinder.  I posted the actual bulletin last year that explained the entire thing in detail, but since the changes were made to the site I'm not sure where to find it.  Perhaps one of the moderators can dig it up and repost it???

Jerry

[Fired00d]

diggity,

From your description it sounds like your problem occurred when you were either sitting still in traffic at idle, or just barely moving in traffic.  This issue became common with the 103's, and only got worse with the 110's.  Bigger engines and leaner mixtures due to tighter EPA regs generate more heat, and nothing was done by the MoCo to improve the low speed cooling capabilities of the new engines.  You may want to have your dealer enable the temp control strategy in the ECM (one time enable, and one time disable if you don't like it, at no charge).  This strategy only takes affect at idle, and includes richening the mixture slightly, lowering the idle speed, and then actually creating a "miss" by not firing one cylinder. I posted the actual bulletin last year that explained the entire thing in detail, but since the changes were made to the site I'm not sure where to find it.  Perhaps one of the moderators can dig it up and repost it???

Jerry

Is this it...

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Unbalanced]

Chief your right, thanks for catching that I got side tracked and typed it fast and left out some information in my hurry.   

Want to verify what the temp of the oil is, then the front juggs/heads then move on to the rear.   The biggest problem will be duplicating the test over and over.   Unless someone just enjoys sitting in traffic roasting their nuts off. 

To get the best reading on the front cylinder, would be to take a reading from the sensor area which is where Harley is going to get their initial information and not from the spark plug.   I would rather see them take the temperature from the back side of the cylinder in the same / similiar place that harley would vs. from the top of the head.   Can always do that in addition to, but when reporting it you would end up more consistent by following their lead when your going to ask them for the warranty side of it / fix.




   

[grc]

Is this it...

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

That's it - thanks Gary.

Jerry

[diggity]

grc, unbalanced, fired00d

Thanks for the responses. Not sure I want the EITMS, but it may come to that.

Seems to me a good tuner should be able to get most of this heat out...and from
what I read some true duals may help..thoughts on that?

I just got some Redline 20w60hd, and a IR thermometer to take some different temps
when my nuts are burning to take to the dealer.

Any other suggestions are appreciated. 37k for a bike thats hotter than hell and pings (which ain't good IMO) does not seem like a good deal. I am missing my heritage lately.

diggity

[Chief]

Chief your right, thanks for catching that I got side tracked and typed it fast and left out some information in my hurry.   

Want to verify what the temp of the oil is, then the front juggs/heads then move on to the rear.   The biggest problem will be duplicating the test over and over.   Unless someone just enjoys sitting in traffic roasting their nuts off. 

To get the best reading on the front cylinder, would be to take a reading from the sensor area which is where Harley is going to get their initial information and not from the spark plug.   I would rather see them take the temperature from the back side of the cylinder in the same / similiar place that harley would vs. from the top of the head.   Can always do that in addition to, but when reporting it you would end up more consistent by following their lead when your going to ask them for the warranty side of it / fix.

I don't know if getting these temperatures will ever do us any good with the MoCo. They don't publish limits or other CHT specs, but I think being able to easily compare our bikes with each other can go a long way in developing a comfort level of what is hot and what is REALLY F'ing HOT!!! This is why I cam up with the spark plug ring location as it is very easy to replicate. We all can see that shiny ring around the spark plug and if we all measure it the same place, the comparisons would mean more. I can surf around the head and watch the temps go all over the place, so one known location helps with consistent data.

[sooiee]

You know...I don't see what any good any of the data will do? 
The testing that the MOCO does in DPG (Desert Proving Gounds) gets a heck of a lot hotter than any of the places we ride.  So, the temps we see, aren't too alarming to them. 

Bottom line is that it's an air cooled motor.  If you're not moving...they're gonna get hot.  REAL HOT!  Is it something new to the MOCO...NOPE. 

Have fun.  Be safe and most importantly, ride! 

[Chief]

You know...I don't see what any good any of the data will do? 
The testing that the MOCO does in DPG (Desert Proving Gounds) gets a heck of a lot hotter than any of the places we ride.  So, the temps we see, aren't too alarming to them. 

Bottom line is that it's an air cooled motor.  If you're not moving...they're gonna get hot.  REAL HOT!  Is it something new to the MOCO...NOPE. 

Have fun.  Be safe and most importantly, ride! 

I wasn't aware HD goes to the desert. I remember when they did the show on the V-Rod, their heat soak was done in a corral at Talladega, nowhere near a desert. Never mentioned as I recall. they made a big point about riding the bikes on the track, letting them idle in the pen and then riding them again and then repeating it over again.

Are you sure about your above statement?

The reason the data has some merit is that it can be used to ease an owner's mind. We all know the 110s run hotter than any other motor to date. If your bike is running hotter than any other Harley you have ever owned, you are naturally going to be alarmed and worried. If you find out that others are running the same, it helps. Misery loves company. If on the other hand, you were to check temps and they were off the chart, it may alert you to change the way you ride to prevent such high temps in the fyture, which are not good for an air cooled motor.

[Talon]

Really any 07, with the narrow band O2 sensors will run leaner/hot because of the ATF ratio.

 http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hd2007HD_wbo2_upgrade.htm

http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hd2007HD_nbo2_volt_divide.htm