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[grc]

     grc                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                I had the runout checked from the cam side when I had the cams replaced with HD's se cams and I wanted to see if at a later date I could switch to gear drives. The tech lead me to belive I could ....oh yea you're good ...only 2 1/2 thousandths.... well within limits.......Well I guess that's out if S & S are only recommending .002 max. Is this right? Anyone else care to chime in. Hoist I know you've got some words of wisdom on this topic.

KingDog,

The .002 recommendation I read somewhere from S&S was one of those answers to a question concerning the "optimum" situation regarding noise levels.  They didn't indicate it wouldn't work at higher levels of runout, just that noise levels would increase.  Besides, the difference between .002 and your .0025 is relatively insignificant (5/10000).  I think you should be good to go if you decide to make the change.

Jerry

[StreetDog]

 Jerry, thanks for the reply...makes me feel alittle better.....Any suggestion on which cam works the best on these 110's, the one that's in there right now has too much low end hesitation for me. SE 258's with 10.25 pistons and .030 head gastkets and some moderate porting.

[bisounours]

Howie,

It may depend on where the measurement is being taken.  Normally you check crank runout in a truing stand, not in the engine.  I suppose if you made the check all the way out at the end of the pinion shaft you could argue for a slightly larger tolerance?  I'm thinking that is what H-D did when they realized they had a ton of cranks out in the field that measured over 0.003"; have the engineering group issue a quick bulletin to the dealers calling out a larger tolerance before authorizing repairs.  I've seen it done in the auto business, so it wouldn't surprise me to see H-D do it as well.  They probably figure a little extra runout won't hurt, since they no longer have gear drive cams.  My answer to that is, how about the extra wear on the oil pump and cam plate that this runout will create?

The part that ticks me off is that H-D is keeping this quiet, with no communications directly to the consumer.  Based on a quick search on the 'net, this issue is not just on CVO's (same crank on TC96 and TC110).  If this problem has a known cause that was corrected as of a certain build date, that information should be made available to the dealers and consumers.  That is the approach the MoCo took back in 2000 on the original TC88 cam bearing issue.  Unfortunately, I haven't seen the current management group do the same thing on any of the major issues that have surfaced since that time.  Current philosophy seems to be "Problem? - What Problem?".

Jerry

Hey Jerry,

Actually, my bike is at the dealer for the leaking head gasket.
I've read the story of Ultrafxr concerning the runout.
I've asked a checkup of my crankshaft in same time than the other reparation.
My dealer had sent my request to the MoCo and the answer is :
"Many other checkups was made not in conformity of the procedures.
If your customer ask a checkup, it'll be to own cost.
You (the dealer) need only to test on the road and if there are no vibrations, it's OK.
In other case, perhaps, it's a problem of runout."

What is your advise ? What do you think ?

Thanks
Jacques

[bisounours]

An answer, please ! 

Jacques

[Talon]

If there is no noticeably problem, the dealer will charge you for work being requested. Now if you have them open it up and check and they find it out of tolerance you might be able to argue the point. Usually you only check it if you having a problem, or when you go in to change the cams, especially if you install gear drive.

[grc]

Hey Jerry,

Actually, my bike is at the dealer for the leaking head gasket.
I've read the story of Ultrafxr concerning the runout.
I've asked a checkup of my crankshaft in same time than the other reparation.
My dealer had sent my request to the MoCo and the answer is :
"Many other checkups was made not in conformity of the procedures.
If your customer ask a checkup, it'll be to own cost.
You (the dealer) need only to test on the road and if there are no vibrations, it's OK.
In other case, perhaps, it's a problem of runout."

What is your advise ? What do you think ?

Thanks
Jacques

Jacques,

Sorry, I missed this when you posted yesterday.  Normally, I would say that if you aren't experiencing a problem, don't worry about it.  However, since so many others have indicated a runout problem with the 110 cranks I think it would be well worth it for your peace of mind to pay the dealer to check the runout while you're having other work done.  Depending on labor rates in your area, I doubt it would cost more than 200 USD.  And if they actually find something wrong, warranty should pick up the entire cost.

Jerry

[Hoist!]

Just bite the bullet and do the cams. There's no charge to check runout as part of that job. If the runout's bad, don't do the cams, get a new engine, and don't pay for anything! If nothing's wrong, at least you got some new cams installed, instead of getting nothing in return but peace of mind! Hoist!

[bisounours]

All, Thanks for your reply !

I'll ask the cotation for this job.
If it's not to expensive, I'll pay for the peace of mind.

New cams ? Why not ?
Hoist ! New cams ! But, what # of cams ?
I'm stock with RYO A/C, TM/AT and Dresser duals and Ovals V&H.
My wish is more torque in the first part not espacially more hp.

Jacques

[Talon]

Jacques, you just opened up a whole new issue now!! If you don't want to do any head work you should pick a cam with less that 250 duration and around .50 lift. Maybe like a SE 211, but if your looking for a lot more HP & TQ, you need to get the compression up, and go with a bigger cam!

[Hoist!]

The 251's like a little compression, but will work fine with stock heads. Did anyone consider using Cometic head gaskets on the stock heads to raise compression a little bit? The 251, 50mmTB, open A/C and a good exhaust should provide a good running engine, with a better power band than stock, but not necessarily any more top end than stock. Hoist!

[Talon]

Yea, what Hoist said, the .30 gasket should get you to around 9.5:1 with everything else being stock.

[igofar]

Umm, where are you going to get that .030" gasket??

Brad

[Hoist!]

Umm, where are you going to get that .030" gasket??

Brad

From the Cometic Website:

Twin Cam All Models, Head Gasket 4" - .030" Spring Steel C9725  99-Up 2 $39.65

They're available!

Hoist!

[bisounours]

Jacques, you just opened up a whole new issue now!!

I'll read this thread : http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=14878.0
It's probably the best place.... 

Thanks for your proposals.
My TB is stock. Is it a 50mm or I need to change it ?

Jacques

[Hoist!]

I'll read this thread : http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=14878.0
It's probably the best place.... 

Thanks for your proposals.
My TB is stock. Is it a 50mm or I need to change it ?

Jacques

Your stock TB is 46mm. If you do cams, you'll want a little better flow and 4.89 injectors, which comes with the 50mm. Hoist!