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[Midnight Rider]

Brian...thanks for this informative thread, and Harry, thanks for confirming some of the thoughts I've had in recent months concerning all this Dyno run stuff.  I must say that when I got my bike tuned at Rod's Performance in Northern Alabama after I had installed the Rinehart's and dumped a canned map to get it up to him, that I was  bit disappointed in the results, as I was expecting numbers right around 100, but instead ended up with (rounding off) 98TQ and 94HP.  Rod has a nice dyno room, with huge ventilation fans on the roof, and a large intake in the front of the room...doesn't blow your hat off, but changes the air approx 6 times per minute.  Having worked in that field for many years, I could appreciate his room set-up.  Small fans were directed at both sides of the engine, but not directly at the intake.  He did tune both cylinders, doing the front first, then the rear.  The final "pull" was done with the sniffer in the rear cylinder.  One thing he did prove to me conclusively was how much difference the intake makes....after pulling the final run, he removed my filter and did another pull, gaining approx 3 units on both numbers.  His contention was that the regular SE backplate and 0800 filter are too restrictive for the 103 motors.  This is one reason I put the Doherty unit on the bike shortly afterwards, as it is a bit wider filter and has a better intake venturi, IMO.  The motor does seem to run better with it.

Other observations when he did the tune:  Rod is not a tall guy, but is stocky...probably a bit over 200lbs.  He did sort of sit on the left side of the bike when doing the tuning and the pull.  I assume this alone would make the numbers be a bit lower than if there was no weight on the bike?  Also, my air pressure in the rear tire (Dunlop) was 36psi, as I checked it the morning of the tune before I left the house.  He does use an SAE correction factor of 5.

So, I guess in hindsight, I at least got an "honest" dyno run, rather than inflated numbers by doing some of the things mentioned in the threads above.  I did not know to ask for seperate pulls from each cylinder after they complete the tuning of the rear.  Bottom line is the bike runs well, gets decent fuel mileage if I keep things under 70mph.  The only time I get a decel pop is when the bike is stone cold (I let it run a couple of minutes before going, then take it easy untill fully warmed up), or when I have run the rpm up to about 4K, then use the engine for braking...I then get one single pop out of what sounds like the front cylinder.

Rod also tuned my Vrod when I put the new pipe on a few weeks ago....again, I was hoping for larger numbers, but the drivablity is excellent after it's warmed up...a characteristic of the Revo is to stumble a bit when cold, but after warming up, bike runs great.  Comparing numbers to some of the other bikes over on the Vrod Forum, I seem low, but now think that it's just I got more "real" numbers, and others are reporting inflated ones.

Oh....PCIIIUSB's on both bikes.

Brian, glad you got a better tune, and some of your problems have been resolved...I didn't think you'd let the decel problem continue    Thanks for the information, and Harry, thanks for the education/confirmation concerning this whole business of Dyno numbers.

[110tHunDer]

. . . With all the differences in dyno's/dyno operators and all the "nature" (heat/humidity/altitude) provided differences I feel it's hard to compare dyno numbers from different machines/operators.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

That was basically the reason why I wanted to post the results of all 3 different dyno runs on my bike.  I used to think you could rely on the numbers, especially after Bumpus' baseline run was pretty much identical to what my bike turned  on the dyno in Peoria.  But, after seeing the latest set of numbers from another dyno which show the HP 15 lower and TQ 16 lower than what Bumpus gave me, it is obvious there are major differences in dynos and almost certainly some games being played to show large numbers.  Even on the latest run, I am having trouble believing the bike now has 8 more HP & TQ than before.  Those are numbers that the butt dyno should feel, and it is just not there.  Rideability is MUCH improved, in fact, nearly perfect now, but I definitely don't feel like the bike picked up 8 HP/TQ over where it was before.  To put it in perspective, that would mean that on Bumpus' dyno, the bike should now be producing 113 HP and 125 TQ.   No way!

[miker]

The "Seat O the Pants" tune can get you close too.. My pal has dropped big cash into his 106 S&S... nice motor, timkin, yada, yada, yada...
He fooled with his sert a bunch, viewed hot plugs after runnin it hard, tuned some more cells and had it runnin smooth & strong. 

Anal Retention set in and he dropped over 4 hours dyno time up the Space Coast somewhere and they tuned in 1 whopping ft/lb and 1 hp....
At least it made lots of hard pulls and didn't come apart!

If one sits on it long enough, the ass can become a sensitve testing device,  in my opinion..

Miker

[REGGAB]

The "Seat O the Pants" tune can get you close too.. My pal has dropped big cash into his 106 S&S... nice motor, timkin, yada, yada, yada...
He fooled with his sert a bunch, viewed hot plugs after runnin it hard, tuned some more cells and had it runnin smooth & strong. 

Anal Retention set in and he dropped over 4 hours dyno time up the Space Coast somewhere and they tuned in 1 whopping ft/lb and 1 hp....
At least it made lots of hard pulls and didn't come apart!

If one sits on it long enough, the ass can become a sensitve testing device,  in my opinion..

Miker

Agreed.  Had mine dyno'd just to get the tune right.  Numbers don't mean much to me.  As long as it is reliable and tuned for longevity, then performance takes a back seat.  Mine has plenty 'nuff power for me.  I don't care too much for the chain driven cams tho'.  Would like to upgrade to gears, BUT this whole pressed flywheel/crank runout deal has me questioning reliability and longevity ex post facto.  The bike is awesome as is.  At 18K+ miles, I'm beginning to worry about my tensioners, since I've been down that road before.  Was going to check them at 15K, but decided to postpone to 20K.  At 20K, they're getting replaced...........unless I gain enough education to switch to gears, which includes the necessity of splitting the case to weld the crank......in which case there's other stuff which may as well be done as long as it is torn down.  I'm so confused about this whole damn thing that I might just install new tensioners and call it "GOOD" until I hit 40K.

Henry

[hogasm]

Tbone,




Brian,
I would love for one/some any of the guys that has used bragging rights or john golden to then go and just have a pull down at the other to compare then extend that to the shops that are most currently being used like latus, bumpus, charlotte, hal's hd, dr. dyno, carl's speed shop, speeds performance plus etc.   



-harry

Harry, next weekend Bayside HD is having a dyno shootout. I am going to take Bessie to see if I can get a 100hp tee shirt,  and see how close or far apart John Golden's dyno is to theirs.

[Unbalanced]

Brian,

That will be a good comparison for those in your area.   Maybe while your down to get crash or to take a look at crash you can drop by Bragging Rights so we can get a comparison on Bessie's dyno's Golden / Bragging Rights.

What numbers did you have on Bessie from John after the last tune?

-harry

[Fired00d]

Note how close the baseline (blue line) is in the Bumpus graph vs. the one from Peoria:

Peoria Max HP  91
Peoria Max TQ  98

Peoria Max HP  89
Peoria Max TQ  98

Makes sense, same tune, similar results on two different dynos, right?  Also, stellar improvement in both HP and TQ adding the cams and pipes.  HP all the way up to 105 and TQ at 117 - WHOOO HOO!

OK, then.  Now here are the results from the dyno run of just the other day at the dealer nearby:

Brian,
I had remembered that Zippers had posted dyno runs/results comparing several different exhausts w/the 575 cams on the 103 motors. Your latest results are right there w/what they were predicting. You can see the posts here - 575 cam, and below is a copy of that dyno sheet.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[StreetDog]

 Hey Fired00d, the results of the Rineharts TD'S looks impressive, with more torque than the D & D Fatcats. The only concern I would have is that the torque comes in sooo late a @ 3000 RPM's. Or would that be contribuated to that 575 cam. I noticed you have that setup....can you tell the torque comes in late. Or is the driveability better than it appears? I'm just seaching for answers so I know how to go forward with mine. Looking for more torque, maybe with 58mm TB.

[Fired00d]

Hey Fired00d, the results of the Rineharts TD'S looks impressive, with more torque than the D & D Fatcats. The only concern I would have is that the torque comes in sooo late a @ 3000 RPM's. Or would that be contribuated to that 575 cam. I noticed you have that setup....can you tell the torque comes in late. Or is the driveability better than it appears? I'm just seaching for answers so I know how to go forward with mine. Looking for more torque, maybe with 58mm TB.

You can check out this post/thread for my dyno results - REDSHIFT 575 CAMS & OTHER PRETTY PARTS also others have posted their dyno results in that thread. Here is a link to the above thread on the old site since some of the text/pictures may be missing from software upgrade REDSHIFT 575 CAMS & OTHER PRETTY PARTS.

The torque starts rising about 2500 RPM, max's out at around 3800 RPM, and doesn't start dropping off until around 4300 RPM. I'm still running stock TB, only changes were what you see in my signature below. I'm pleased w/the way the bike runs and it's a significant difference from what it was before (Rineharts, SERT, & SEAC). My main reason for upgrading cams was to get rid of chain driven, and the performance enhancements w/o doing any other upgrades or mods (headwork/pistons) was a plus.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[110tHunDer]

Hey Fired00d, the results of the Rineharts TD'S looks impressive, with more torque than the D & D Fatcats. The only concern I would have is that the torque comes in sooo late a @ 3000 RPM's. Or would that be contribuated to that 575 cam. I noticed you have that setup....can you tell the torque comes in late. Or is the driveability better than it appears? I'm just seaching for answers so I know how to go forward with mine. Looking for more torque, maybe with 58mm TB.

Gary pointed you in the right direction in those other threads.  Just add to what he said, though, you can definitely feel the motor hit it's stride above 3,000 rpms with the Rineharts.  The thing really comes alive in the upper-rpm.  As it was described to me, the Rineharts are the more "hot rod" of the two pipes.  If you like to wind the bike out from time-to-time, you'll like the Rineharts.  If you prefer the low-end torque, you'll prefer the D&Ds.  I've spent some time on a D&D-equipped 2005 SEEG with the same mods and you can definitely feel the differences in the torque curves between the two bikes.  It pretty much boils down to your riding style, but like Gary, I don't feel that the bike is lacking in the low-end because it is still a lot stronger there than before I did the mods, even if it's not quite as strong as if it had the D&Ds.

[Hoist!]

Gary pointed you in the right direction in those other threads.  Just add to what he said, though, you can definitely feel the motor hit it's stride above 3,000 rpms with the Rineharts.  The thing really comes alive in the upper-rpm.  As it was described to me, the Rineharts are the more "hot rod" of the two pipes.  If you like to wind the bike out from time-to-time, you'll like the Rineharts.  If you prefer the low-end torque, you'll prefer the D&Ds.  I've spent some time on a D&D-equipped 2005 SEEG with the same mods and you can definitely feel the differences in the torque curves between the two bikes.  It pretty much boils down to your riding style, but like Gary, I don't feel that the bike is lacking in the low-end because it is still a lot stronger there than before I did the mods, even if it's not quite as strong as if it had the D&Ds.

You'll get both with the Fatcats with Performance Muffler instead of the Quiet Muffler. They make a quiet version of the Performance Muffler, but believe me, it's anything but quiet. I gave up on that quiet chit though! The bike runs way too good w/the Peerformance Fatcats!

Hoist!

[StreetDog]

 Hoist, I thought you are running the Quite baffle. Aren't there just three different baffles? The quite,standard, and the performance one. You did test all three didn't you. How did the Quite baffle do compared to the other ones?

[Hoist!]

Hoist, I thought you are running the Quite baffle. Aren't there just three different baffles? The quite,standard, and the performance one. You did test all three didn't you. How did the Quite baffle do compared to the other ones?

There are 2 Fatcat mufflers. The Standard one and the Performance one. Both are available in the Quiet version. They add fiber glass packing in the quiet ones. But it takes the tinnyness out of them and makes it sound a little deeper. I really like them. But they are pretty damn loud over 2500 RPM! They have an evil, wicked sound to them. And you can make them sound pretty damn obnoxious if you want/need to. I gotta tell you, people move out of the way when they hear it. They don't know what it is, or where it's coming from. And they move! It make lane splitting much easier!Definite bonus!

Hoist!

[StreetDog]

 Hoist , what's performance difference between the standard quiet and the performance quiet. I know it's alot louded with the performance pipe and seens like you would lose alittle torque down low with all that flow going out ( no backpressure ). Do these motors not require some backpressure? Or does the performance quite one just produce that much more power and torque?

[Hoist!]

Hoist , what's performance difference between the standard quite and the performance quite. I know it's alot louded with the performance pipe and seens like you would lose alittle torque down low with all that flow going out ( no backpressure ). Do these motors not require some backpressure? Or does the performance quite one just produce that much more power and torque?

That's not easily answered KD. The exhaust system should be a part of the matched components you're using to modify the bike. If you're only bolting on exhaust and open A/C, then tuning, I would say it might be too big to see any gain in performance. It might actually be worse. From my testing, on my motor, I needed the flow, in and out, to get the best performance. I believe we lost 6 ft-lbs and 4 HP with the Regular Quiet Muffler vs. the Quiet Performance Muffler. For larger engines, they make an even larger one called Borzilla. That would definitely be too large for a stock engine. It's not bigger is better. It's properly matching everything for optimum performance, if that's what you're after. Hell, if you just wanna make noise, put drag pipes on.

Hoist!