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[dejavo]

Just got back from a long trip, over 6000 mi. Throwing away my daytona twin tech and puting in a HARLEY race tuner. THe bike ran fantastic for over 4400 mi. I ran it up down and sideways thru the rockies and sieras and desert and a pice or two of interstate. Then the problem hit . Ended up being a failed o2 sensor. Harley dealers can not or in some cases will not work on aftermarket tuners. I ended up hauling my scoter back in a u-haul from reno to chi town. The engine is perfect and running strong but that does not matter. If you are away from your local support and you have no choice but to rely on a harley tech you are screwed. My 2cents - get rid of the tmax twintech pc etc. THey may be far superior to the race tuner but $2000 + later I learned, I would have been back on the road if the dealer could have worked on it.
 

[LRebel]

Just got back from a long trip, over 6000 mi. Throwing away my daytona twin tech and puting in a HARLEY race tuner. THe bike ran fantastic for over 4400 mi. I ran it up down and sideways thru the rockies and sieras and desert and a pice or two of interstate. Then the problem hit . Ended up being a failed o2 sensor. Harley dealers can not or in some cases will not work on aftermarket tuners. I ended up hauling my scoter back in a u-haul from reno to chi town. The engine is perfect and running strong but that does not matter. If you are away from your local support and you have no choice but to rely on a harley tech you are screwed. My 2cents - get rid of the tmax twintech pc etc. THey may be far superior to the race tuner but $2000 + later I learned, I would have been back on the road if the dealer could have worked on it.
 

Well, this may be my answer, as I have been trying to decide whether to go with a PC or SERT on the new bike.  I had a PC on my 02 Ultra and it ran great and never had a single problem.  Based on your experience, I don't want to get caught in the same situation.

Anyone know if any of the HD dealers in or near Oklahoma have a dyno and someone that knows what to do with it?

[Twolanerider]

Well, this may be my answer, as I have been trying to decide whether to go with a PC or SERT on the new bike.  I had a PC on my 02 Ultra and it ran great and never had a single problem.  Based on your experience, I don't want to get caught in the same situation.

Anyone know if any of the HD dealers in or near Oklahoma have a dyno and someone that knows what to do with it?

This is completely anecdotal.  So take it for what it's worth.  A local acquaintance recently took his bike to this shop in Tulsa:  http://www.ironlightninginc.com/

The local dealership tuning his SERT had never been able to fully remedy an approx. 2200 rpm dip that was almost a stumble and a build that performed just genrally poorer then he expected.  They'd made four attempts.

This shop in Tulsa had it for a half day.  The stumble was gone.  Overall the bike ran much more smoothly.  The owner said his fuel economy went up "a little" and his numbers were "better."  Don't know a quantity for either measure though.  Also don't know if they changed anything else on the bike or merely did a better tune.  The guy that owns the bike still speaks of their work glowingly though.

[LRebel]

This is completely anecdotal.  So take it for what it's worth.  A local acquaintance recently took his bike to this shop in Tulsa:  http://www.ironlightninginc.com/

The local dealership tuning his SERT had never been able to fully remedy an approx. 2200 rpm dip that was almost a stumble and a build that performed just genrally poorer then he expected.  They'd made four attempts.

This shop in Tulsa had it for a half day.  The stumble was gone.  Overall the bike ran much more smoothly.  The owner said his fuel economy went up "a little" and his numbers were "better."  Don't know a quantity for either measure though.  Also don't know if they changed anything else on the bike or merely did a better tune.  The guy that owns the bike still speaks of their work glowingly though.

Thanks!  I will check into that shop and see what else I can learn about them.

[Twolanerider]

Thanks!  I will check into that shop and see what else I can learn about them.

Good luck.  Hope they or someone else within range does you a great job.

[Hoist!]

Well, this may be my answer, as I have been trying to decide whether to go with a PC or SERT on the new bike.  I had a PC on my 02 Ultra and it ran great and never had a single problem.  Based on your experience, I don't want to get caught in the same situation.

Anyone know if any of the HD dealers in or near Oklahoma have a dyno and someone that knows what to do with it?

You can't put the PC in the same catagory as the DTT. The PC is completely removable and it's invisible to the ECM. You simply remove it before bringing your bike in. It'll be good enough with just exhaust and A/C changes. Remove it 2 blocks away, and reinstall it 2 blocks away after you get it back. If you haven't done any other engine work, this will not cause any problems. I carry a spare PC now, as I can not run on the stock ECM anymore with my mods. The replacement ECM's or overwriting programs can't be removed so easily, if at all. But many dealers install PC's as their tuning device too. I can't see not getting your bike repaired because you have a PC. And if you're really worried about it, carry a spare PC.

Hoist!

[dejavo]

Hoist
I have a pc on my 04 it has always run flawlessly. After my lesson in reno I would think twice aboult another cross country trip with it.  I do agree however that if you are not using a race tuner your best chance is with a pc, and many tuners do a better job with a pc. AS you said a modified bike will not run with just the ecm , so you can not just unplug it.
Please note I loved the way my engine performed with the twin tech as others love their tmax. The unit did not fail an o2 sensor failed. They could not even figure that out. My engine builder from home got on the phone and walked the tech thru the testing. I will give up a little milage and maybe a tad of performance but the harley shops will be able to check my ride if the occasion ever occurs again. Oh POO

[Twolanerider]

Hoist
I have a pc on my 04 it has always run flawlessly. After my lesson in reno I would think twice aboult another cross country trip with it.  I do agree however that if you are not using a race tuner your best chance is with a pc, and many tuners do a better job with a pc. AS you said a modified bike will not run with just the ecm , so you can not just unplug it.
Please note I loved the way my engine performed with the twin tech as others love their tmax. The unit did not fail an o2 sensor failed. They could not even figure that out. My engine builder from home got on the phone and walked the tech thru the testing. I will give up a little milage and maybe a tad of performance but the harley shops will be able to check my ride if the occasion ever occurs again. Oh POO

I ran a PC for many years.  Until relatively recently actually.  In fact very likely in the process of going back to it.  Part of that time the "backup" was a spare PC in the saddlebag.  Would find a good piece that someone had bought and been unable to tune and, voila, had redundancy.  Since error codes come through it basic diagnositics could be performed relatively normally. 

The other backup was when the the stock ECM could be loaded with a map that was close enough to ride with.  Then as you suggest you'd just take ten minutes on the side of the road and unplug it (ok, a lot more then 10 minutes if you're on a Softail). 

Completely agree though that heading out with a non-standard primary system should absolutely require some sort of backup or fallback position that will allow a regular shop to at least attempt to service.  Too many look at anything non-stock as an excuse to avoid making the effort.   There's just no reason to shoot ourselves in the foot in the process of trying to use something even if it is a slight bit better.

[Hoist!]

Hoist
I have a pc on my 04 it has always run flawlessly. After my lesson in reno I would think twice aboult another cross country trip with it.  I do agree however that if you are not using a race tuner your best chance is with a pc, and many tuners do a better job with a pc. AS you said a modified bike will not run with just the ecm , so you can not just unplug it.
Please note I loved the way my engine performed with the twin tech as others love their tmax. The unit did not fail an o2 sensor failed. They could not even figure that out. My engine builder from home got on the phone and walked the tech thru the testing. I will give up a little milage and maybe a tad of performance but the harley shops will be able to check my ride if the occasion ever occurs again. Oh POO

Sorry to hear of your troubles on the road mr. That system isn't as widely used. And anything can fail. The PC is the most popular unit. It's used on every brand bike. And the same company makes the Dyno's. It can easily be replaced on the road if you don't carry a spare. All you need is your map. And it doesn't use O2 sensors. I understand your reluctance to use the DTT, but I'm not very concerned about the PC. There's way less people around that know the SERT than know the PC. Most HD dealers don't even have a dyno. They sub out the work. BTW, for the record, it doesn't matter to me at all what device people use to tune their bikes or if they use one at all. I recommend that they do something though. But I'm just passing on my opinions based on my own experience and understanding, and hope it helps others make their minds up which way to go.

Hoist!

[TN]

i thought if you used the tmax or dtt and the wideband sensors failed it reverted back to open loop....
i don't know , just trying to learn.

they want you to be an exclusive customer for life anymore....harley needs a version of onstar.


Just trying to learn

TN

[rednectum]

just a thought============lots of dealers cant tune SERT, PC, or any other tuner. instead of relying on a dealer, why not find a capable indy shop if you have problems on the road? also, the wait will probably be much shorter!!!!!!!

[Midnight Rider]

just a thought============lots of dealers cant tune SERT, PC, or any other tuner. instead of relying on a dealer, why not find a capable indy shop if you have problems on the road? also, the wait will probably be much shorter!!!!!!!

Dennis...as you know, I'm very interested in the Direct Link system simply because it programs the ECM just like the SERT...perhaps better, since most tuners I've talked to put bungs or other types of taps into the header pipe to get better readings from the exhaust gases and eliminate the chance for reversion.  Question:  if, by some small chance, the ECM went bad on my bike, and I had the "key" with me, what would be involved in loading the program contained in the key back into the ECM? 

Most of the time, a SERT must be tuned by a HD shop, and I trust them about as far as I can thrown them, so am looking for alternatives to have something better than either that or the PCIII, but that could be back up and running, even if it involved some overnight shipping charges to get everything back to normal.  To take this one step further, I know a place to get the ECM loaded with a map exactly like the small changes I have on my bike.  I personally don't buy all the talk about two identical motors being significantly different enough for the same map not to work perfectly well in either motor IF all the components are the same.  For example:  two SE 103 engines, both with Rinehart TD's, high flow A/C, same injectors, same TB, etc.  I am not convinced that the exact same map would not work equally well in both bikes. I'm not talking about 1HP difference on a dyno, but practical, real world running.  Enlighten me if my reasoning is in error...

Another part of this question for everyone:  How many ECM's do you know of that have taken a crap and had to be replaced?

[rednectum]

Dennis...as you know, I'm very interested in the Direct Link system simply because it programs the ECM just like the SERT...perhaps better, since most tuners I've talked to put bungs or other types of taps into the header pipe to get better readings from the exhaust gases and eliminate the chance for reversion.  Question:  if, by some small chance, the ECM went bad on my bike, and I had the "key" with me, what would be involved in loading the program contained in the key back into the ECM? 

Most of the time, a SERT must be tuned by a HD shop, and I trust them about as far as I can thrown them, so am looking for alternatives to have something better than either that or the PCIII, but that could be back up and running, even if it involved some overnight shipping charges to get everything back to normal.  To take this one step further, I know a place to get the ECM loaded with a map exactly like the small changes I have on my bike.  I personally don't buy all the talk about two identical motors being significantly different enough for the same map not to work perfectly well in either motor IF all the components are the same.  For example:  two SE 103 engines, both with Rinehart TD's, high flow A/C, same injectors, same TB, etc.  I am not convinced that the exact same map would not work equally well in both bikes. I'm not talking about 1HP difference on a dyno, but practical, real world running.  Enlighten me if my reasoning is in error...

Another part of this question for everyone:  How many ECM's do you know of that have taken a crap and had to be replaced?

the key is to contain the security code to let you into the software. you sould carry another thumbdrive and have your map(s) loaded on it, and i se no reason you couldnt have the software on that drive as well. it should be as simple as loading the software on another computer, using the key to allow you to tune, open and write map back to the new ecm.  as far as borrowing a map from a like bike, i see no reason it would not get you by till you could have yours tuned again, it should be close enough. i would make sure the borrowed map was created in a like environment also, considerring fuel, altitude, climate, etc:.

if the dealer replacing your ecm uses digital tech to initialize your new ecm with vin number, i see no reason the key would not work. before depending on it-----i would make sure by talking to technoresearch tech support.

[Talon]

Don't know if any of you have tried this, but I read a thread on another site. A guy running a PCIII recommended that after you get you bike to where you want it, have the stock ECU flashed by Harley with the closest flash to your build, then add the PCIII back and get your final tune on this setup. That way if you did ever have a problem with the PCIII, being a piggyback system, you could just unplug it and would be in the ballpark with the stock ECU to get you home. Sounds good to me, if you can get a flash that is close to what your running.

[Hoist!]

Don't know if any of you have tried this, but I read a thread on another site. A guy running a PCIII recommended that after you get you bike to where you want it, have the stock ECU flashed by Harley with the closest flash to your build, then add the PCIII back and get your final tune on this setup. That way if you did ever have a problem with the PCIII, being a piggyback system, you could just unplug it and would be in the ballpark with the stock ECU to get you home. Sounds good to me, if you can get a flash that is close to what your running.

That's if they make a flash for your bike. There are no flash maps for '07's or '08's. SERT or another ECM "writeover" program is the only way to have your stock ECM be good as a backup if the PC fails. It's much cheaper to get a spare PC to have with you, than it is to get the SERT also, and then have that tuned too!

Hoist!