Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[just-us-6]

Well as written in here before, I have an 04 SEEG that I did the Zippers 113 Muscle kit with TMAT. I have not been happy with my power from this package so far. I am also having problems finding tuners that will mess with the TMAT. My last dyno was 101 HP and 106 TQ. That is barely above what I had with my 103" with Rineharts, AC and SERT. The new dealer that I am going to is trying hard to help me get this right, which is more than I can say for Zippers at this point! We are going to try to get the power out of this motor one more time. The best that I have gotten out of this motor was 112 HP and 120 TQ. I am trying to figure my next option if the power does not come. Anybody with opinions is invited to weigh in. I have already spent way to much money for no results! First option is keep the 113 and change heads and cams to TMAN's. The dealer has a build like this done already with very impressive results. The next option is to sell my motor and do a Jim's 120 or 131" build and look for my needed power in a different motor. The other option is to tear down my motor and build it to a 117" or 124" using TMAN's heads and cams. The decision will probably be made within the next week and a half as my final attempt at tuning my present package is next week. I am seriously considering taking my TMAT off and letting them attempt to tune this with my old SERT since this is what they are used to, and hopefully taking out tuning variable, to see what the actual motor itself is capable of. Opinions???

[Boatman]

There are a lot more people on this board that know more than me about tuning etc..  After reading your post, I would give your tuner 1 more chance with the Tmax, and if not what expected, put your ECM back on and retune with your SERT that they are familiar with.  If you get power as expected then, either the Tmax was bad or they didn't know how to use it.  I would do this first as you have spent a lot already and wouldn't want to spend more if it was in the ECM/tuning.  Good luck.

[grc]

..............................................I am seriously considering taking my TMAT off and letting them attempt to tune this with my old SERT since this is what they are used to, and hopefully taking out tuning variable, to see what the actual motor itself is capable of. Opinions???

just-us-6,

You've provided your own best answer.  Pull the TMAT, reinstall the stock ECM, and have them tune it with the SERT.  If the engine still fails to produce the power Zipper's claims for that build, it will at least tell you the TMAT isn't your problem.  Still doesn't exactly tell you what is the problem either, but it should eliminate one of the variables anyway. 

Jerry

[geezerglide]

Usually Zippers Products are excellent, however the route I took is as follws:

Jims 120, has Charlie Lawlor of Short Block Charlies do his Vortec Head work, S&S 675 Cams, Kurakyn 57mm Throttle Body c/w 6.63 injectors, rest engine stock.

And here is the secret, you need an excellent turner (Mine is Lee Uhrich of JARZ Performance, in Abbotsford, Brtish Columbia), (kind 0f far for you, however a 1,300 mile round trip for me); we went with the HD SE Race Tuner with a custom map took over 6 hours of tuning and dyno end result with a V&H Pro Pipe was 131 HP and 134 lb. ft. Torque. Engine ran great on highway and in city was averaging over 45 mpgs.

One bad thing, Jims had a recall on the lifters we never found out till to late, the lifter grenaded the engine.

Good news the new Jims 120 arrived in Pheonix today no charge. This time going with a S&S 600 cams. Should be ready in about two week.

geezerglide

[hogasm]

If your dealer is willing to help as you say he his then I would pull the TMAT off and have him tune the bike with your SERT.

Another option....Joes Cycle Repair in Albany NY knows how to tune the TMAT. He did Pete's tune on his Zippers 120 motor. Joe does not like the auto tune so he turns it off, but does like the TMAT for flat tuning.

[mr_magoo]

Geezer just now getting your replacement motor.  Glad to here they are replacing it.

[Dan_Lockwood]

Engine ran great on highway and in city was averaging over 45 mpgs.

Geezerglide:

Quick question about your MPGS.  Is that US gallons or the larger Imperial gallons? :

Isn't an Imperial gallon about 1.199468 US gallons, approximately?  So would it be safe to say that your mileage, apples to apples, would be about 20% less using US gallon than your 45 mpgs?

Not that is changes the price pancakes in China, it is a question I've meant to ask some of our nothern neighbors when they say they get "X" for mileage.

Sounds like you have a great setup, other than the lifter issues.

Thanks.

[just-us-6]

I should have clarified that the current tune that made the 101 HP is what Zippers did to it at Sturgis. I have called the dealer and told him that I am bringing back the SERT. The thundermax will be for sale soon! and possibly a Zippers 113 also. Now that I have made my mind up on the ECM anybody else got ideas motor wise? Please share your ideas, opinions and experiences with different motor options. NOT ZIPPERS! Been there, done that and won't do it again.

[geezerglide]

mr_magoo,

How have you been? Sure took a long time, JIMs wanted the engine in ther hands to inspect, I guess they had to evaluate, and then build me a new one minus heads and cams, as already had the Vortec prepped heads and gong with Gera Grive cams, lucky I had the Beemer for the summer.

Dan_Lockwood,

As I do most of my riding in the US I based my MPG on what I was getting in the US. For example I was getting as good or better gas mileage than my friends on thier Ultras with stock 88s with some mild work i.e. HD 203 Cams. My bike is a Road Glide.

geezerglide

[djkak]

.....One bad thing, Jims had a recall on the lifters we never found out till to late, the lifter grenaded the engine.
Good news the new Jims 120 arrived in Pheonix today no charge. This time going with a S&S 600 cams. Should be ready in about two week.

geezerglide

I started the “Jims Lifters” topic last November to give folks a heads up about my experience with the Screamin’ Eagle lifters; sourced by H-D from Jims at the time. It looks like the thread did not make it through the data conversion process when this site was updated.

http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=9406.msg142946#msg142946

The attached photo is of the rear intake tappet roller from my personal machine. The lifter was purchased 5/17/2006 and had 12,185 miles on it. The previous set of lifters was invoiced 8/17/2005 and had 3,257 miles when the engine came down for the 113 build. At that time one out of the four tappet rollers was in the early stages of failure.

At this time we now know that H-D no longer sources its Screamin’ eagle lifters from Jims, and Jims has discontinued the early unit, now offering the updated Powerglide II lifter.

It has been my experience as well as the experience of others that the rear intake tappet roller of affected lifters is the first to fail. I believe that the rear intake tappet roller is “shrouded” from the air/oil mist in the camchest and receives less lubrication than the other tappet rollers do. I would recommend that anyone running the early SE 18562-02 or Jims Powerglide lifters take the time to remove and inspect the rear intake tappet roller for smooth operation. To inspect the roller, hold the lifter in your fist and rotate the roller under pressure from your thumb. ANY roughness detected is a clear indication that you have an issue. If you have a questionable lifter and are unsure, compare it with the rear exhaust.

Unlike the Twin Cam’s predecessors, a tappet roller failure can be a very serious issue in a Twin Cam, as geezerglide’s post reveals. I have heard of these things taking out crankcases when they fail. I was very lucky when mine soiled the nest.

djkak

[SirMichael]

   If your dealer will help you, definitly go with the SERT

   Also, if you want to try someone else, you can go to Hals H-D Speed shop, They are in New Berlin, Wisconsin. About 4.5 hours from you, they know what they are doing, so it would be worth the road trip if need be!! 

  You can give them a call, ask for Sam and explain your situation to him, he will tell you what they can do for you!!

  Just my opinion, I would do the SERT anyways!!


                                                      Good Luck
                                                                      MIKE

[rednectum]

ditto on hals, they got a great dyno guy.

[SneakyPete]

I should have clarified that the current tune that made the 101 HP is what Zippers did to it at Sturgis. I have called the dealer and told him that I am bringing back the SERT. The thundermax will be for sale soon! and possibly a Zippers 113 also. Now that I have made my mind up on the ECM anybody else got ideas motor wise? Please share your ideas, opinions and experiences with different motor options. NOT ZIPPERS! Been there, done that and won't do it again.

I can't emphasize enough the importance of tuning ON A DYNO.  If Zippers "tuned" it at Sturgis, they did it without a dyno, therefore, whatever adjustments they made were not for HP/TQ.  Their canned maps for the TMAT don't produce optimal HP/TQ anyway.  It seems the engine potential is there as you got 112/120 at one time, so if your SERT tuner is any good he should at least get that much.  Also keep in mind that just because a tuner is familiar with using a particular ECM, doesn't necessarily mean he/she is a good tuner.  Zippers built my motor (120 muscle kit) and I am very satisfied with it.  I am also very satisfied with the TMAT running in open loop once I got a good tune (Joe's Cycle Repair).  No need to engage the AT.  The stock 103 heads aren't very good at producing big power, even with modifications, which is why I went with the 120 vs. the 113.  That was my personal opinion/choice, but there are members of this forum who have had great success with the Zippers 113 kit, so I say the problem lies with tuning (assuming everything else was put together properly).  Before you do anything too drastic (and expensive) get a good tune from a good tuner.  jmho.   

[just-us-6]

I have picked the current dealer because of their experience with high performance builds, tuning ability, and most of all CUSTOMER SERVICE! They (Gutteridge Harley, Danville, IL) came highly recomended to me from a good friend, and I would definately recommend them to others. However, I would not say 112/120 was what I was expecting out of this build, and even if they get that number or just a little better again, I will ride it till winter and then upgrade over the winter.

[radavi98]

I had the Zippers 107 kit and the performance never came close to what they advertised. My problems ran far deeper and brought the wrath of Zippers fans.  Did you get a complete engine from them or the kit and build elsewhere?  My opinion is Zippers jumped the shark and became an internet seller and is riding the great reputation from its past.  I had the misfortune of having the work performed there also.  Jims, TP, Patrick racing and even S&S would be more cost effective for the dollar to HP ratio IMHO.