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[110tHunDer]

 
As some of you are aware, I had the SEEG re-tuned by the local dealer because I was having a lot of popping on decel with the map that Brian Rose at Bumpus in Memphis did after the Zipper's 575 cam install.  They fixed the popping, but after the re-tune I had some (then) relatively minor spark knock when rolling on the throttle in 4th and 5th gears.  It was pretty minor immediately after I got the bike back, so I headed out to Hot Springs thinking "no biggie."  On the way back home, though, it was pinging with the cruise on whenever I'd hit a incline, like going over and overpass, so bad, in fact, that I stopped to get some 104+ octane boost to see if I could get rid of it.  That helped, but I still had some pinging, so Wednesday I dropped the bike off for them to take some timing out of the map.  When I picked it up today, they told me they took 4 degrees of advance out of both cylinders.  The butt dyno says the bike runs just as stout as before, so to get around to my question . . . . is 4 degrees relatively a lot, or just a minor tweak?

[Twolanerider]

As some of you are aware, I had the SEEG re-tuned by the local dealer because I was having a lot of popping on decel with the map that Brian Rose at Bumpus in Memphis did after the Zipper's 575 cam install.  They fixed the popping, but after the re-tune I had some (then) relatively minor spark knock when rolling on the throttle in 4th and 5th gears.  It was pretty minor immediately after I got the bike back, so I headed out to Hot Springs thinking "no biggie."  On the way back home, though, it was pinging with the cruise on whenever I'd hit a incline, like going over and overpass, so bad, in fact, that I stopped to get some 104+ octane boost to see if I could get rid of it.  That helped, but I still had some pinging, so Wednesday I dropped the bike off for them to take some timing out of the map.  When I picked it up today, they told me they took 4 degrees of advance out of both cylinders.  The butt dyno says the bike runs just as stout as before, so to get around to my question . . . . is 4 degrees relatively a lot, or just a minor tweak?

Brian, 4 degrees is a not inconsequential amount.  But it's also a completely relative measure.  Real question is 4 degrees from what?  And with how much fuel at the same time?

Let the butt dyno be your guide.  Too much advance isn't good and won't add much (if anything).  If they had it dialed up too far and brought it back to where it needs to be to run right don't worry too much.

[110tHunDer]

Brian, 4 degrees is a not inconsequential amount.  But it's also a completely relative measure.  Real question is 4 degrees from what?  And with how much fuel at the same time?

Let the butt dyno be your guide.  Too much advance isn't good and won't add much (if anything).  If they had it dialed up too far and brought it back to where it needs to be to run right don't worry too much.

Thanks, Don.  My main reason for asking the question was I was thinking maybe I'd have them take another 2 or so out for sake of safety (could get some chit gas sometime, or have the bike heavily loaded down, that sort of thing) if 4 degrees consituted only a minor adjustment.  When I pick the SERG up tomorrow, I guess I'll see if I can chat with the tech that tuned it to see what changes he made to the fuel delivery and what his take is on adding some headroom to the timing without sacrificing performance.

[rednectum]

i dont know your tuner, and certainly dont mean to insult, but you situation is common when someone tunes for peak numbers. did he put the bike on the road for drivability check after tune?

i also find that many times, the rear cylinder wants less timing and a few degrees out of the rear will cure the detonation. this may or may not be your case, but thought it worth mention.

[110tHunDer]

 
Thanks, red.  Not sure about the first time, but I know he road tested it yesterday.

Say, if it's here somewhere, I apologize, but do you have any experience with the Race Tuner, or do you use the Power Commander?

[rednectum]

103, i dont have much experience with SERT. most other tuners, i do. but keep in mind, if you understand what a motor wants, tuning becomes easy! i dont do many SERT's because of the way HD marries them to the bike. calll me a republican, but i got issues with dictatorships.

[REGGAB]

103, i dont have much experience with SERT. most other tuners, i do. but keep in mind, if you understand what a motor wants, tuning becomes easy! i dont do many SERT's because of the way HD marries them to the bike. calll me a republican, but i got issues with dictatorships.

AMEN!!!
So sayeth the Shepherd!
So sayeth the Flock!

It seems to me that since I can pull all my other H-D goodies from one bike and move move it to another, then I should be able to do the same with the SERT..................if that was my tuner of choice.

Fortunately, it isn't.  In no way am I saying it is a bad tuner.  I used it on the 02 Ultra, and liked it.  What I didn't like was it was useless to me once I got the SEUC.  Gonna stick with the PC.

[Fired00d]

AMEN!!!
So sayeth the Shepherd!
So sayeth the Flock!

It seems to me that since I can pull all my other H-D goodies from one bike and move move it to another, then I should be able to do the same with the SERT..................if that was my tuner of choice.

Fortunately, it isn't.  In no way am I saying it is a bad tuner.  I used it on the 02 Ultra, and liked it.  What I didn't like was it was useless to me once I got the SEUC.  Gonna stick with the PC.

If the ECM's are the same (same P/N) I would think you could swap them from one bike to another then you could use your SERT on another bike. Of course this might mean you have to retune, but at least you wouldn't have to buy another SERT.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[REGGAB]

If the ECM's are the same (same P/N) I would think you could swap them from one bike to another then you could use your SERT on another bike. Of course this might mean you have to retune, but at least you wouldn't have to buy another SERT.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

Hmmmmmmmmm.  The SERT.  It marries to the ECM, so if you want to keep your SERT, then you gotta keep your ECM too.  Is that what you mean, Gary?  I'm pretty sure P/N has little to do with it, since once a SERT is married to a bike (ECM), that's it.  It's over.  It's like those single use cartridges for downloads to your ECM.  Once the data is pushed, the cartridge is useless.

[erniezap]

SERT's get married to a VIN, so it will not work on a different bike.  One thing that I recently learned however, is that the Power Commander and SERT handle timing differently.  According to Bob at RC Cycles, the PC uses throttle position to manage advance and the SERT uses engine load.  For a bike that pings (read higher than stock compression), he was saying that he can tune the timing a lot better with the SERT due to this.  Just my 2 cents, and both of my bikes have PC III's...

[Fired00d]

Hmmmmmmmmm.  The SERT.  It marries to the ECM, so if you want to keep your SERT, then you gotta keep your ECM too.  Is that what you mean, Gary?  I'm pretty sure P/N has little to do with it, since once a SERT is married to a bike (ECM), that's it.  It's over.  It's like those single use cartridges for downloads to your ECM.  Once the data is pushed, the cartridge is useless.

Right. The difference in P/N I was concerned about is if bike X has P/N "01" for it's ECM, and bike Y has a different P/N for the ECM other the "01" then the ECM's wouldn't be interchangeable.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[Fired00d]

SERT's get married to a VIN, so it will not work on a different bike.  One thing that I recently learned however, is that the Power Commander and SERT handle timing differently.  According to Bob at RC Cycles, the PC uses throttle position to manage advance and the SERT uses engine load.  For a bike that pings (read higher than stock compression), he was saying that he can tune the timing a lot better with the SERT due to this.  Just my 2 cents, and both of my bikes have PC III's...

First I've ever heard that. If it gets married to the VIN it's thru the ECM. If you taking the ECM w/you to the new bike then the SERT will not know the difference.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

[REGGAB]

Right. The difference in P/N I was concerned about is if bike X has P/N "01" for it's ECM, and bike Y has a different P/N for the ECM other the "01" then the ECM's wouldn't be interchangeable.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

I'm tracking, but regardless.......a SERT marries to one ECM, so even if P/Ns are identical, the SERT cannot be used on both ECMs.

[REGGAB]

Gary,
Have a look at my DT readout.  ECM is encoded with the VIN.

[rednectum]

First I've ever heard that. If it gets married to the VIN it's thru the ECM. If you taking the ECM w/you to the new bike then the SERT will not know the difference.

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d
 

an expensive proposition, and a costly dyno tune.