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[roadrunner]

I cant seem to find any info on the Timken bearing and its use/advantages.  Would anyone on the site have any info?

Cheers

[Talon]

Not sure what your looking for, Hoist, (Howie), had this done to his bike. He'll probably see this, there's a bunch of guys that own shops on this site, they'll probably have any info you need. What do you need to know?

[hd-dude]

To sum it up in 2003 HD changed the double roller Timkin bearing in the drive side (Primary side) to a single INA type bearing. The Timkin bearing was much stronger and more laborious to install and setup. HD is saving a few dollars on each of these units which equates to big $'s at the end of the production year. The INA bearing is sufficient for stock 88" or 95" motors up to about 100HP. It is when you start exceeding the 100hp numbers that the INA bearings have been known to fail (although this is not set in stone). The conversion consists of machining the right case half to accept the timkin bearings. Jim's has recently come out with a Timkin convertion "sleeve" that will convert the bearings with machining but I do not think anyone has any real expirience with these yet.

[Hoist!]

Well, I just saw it, and Jim explained it better than I could have. I used the Jims conversion Jim speaks of above. It's a new product, but my builder did a test run on my old cases before he determined whether this was a acceptable method for this modification. After he completed it, he was happy with the way it came out. Then my old cases were returned to HD to be destroyed. My new HD cases have the same S/N, so my old ones needed to be returned to HD. My builder then performed this work on my new cases, and it came out like he expected, since he had just done it. So I'm looking forward to a strong reliable bottom and top end now!

Hoist!

[roadrunner]

Thanks, I noticed in a recient post about "time to rebuild 103" someone suggested installing the Timken bearing.  I am considering replacing my chain cams with gear cams since I have 14K on my 2nd set of cam shoes and wondered about having the bearing replaced at the same time.

[Talon]

To sum it up in 2003 HD changed the double roller Timkin bearing in the drive side (Primary side) to a single INA type bearing. The Timkin bearing was much stronger and more laborious to install and setup. HD is saving a few dollars on each of these units which equates to big $'s at the end of the production year. The INA bearing is sufficient for stock 88" or 95" motors up to about 100HP. It is when you start exceeding the 100hp numbers that the INA bearings have been known to fail (although this is not set in stone). The conversion consists of machining the right case half to accept the timkin bearings. Jim's has recently come out with a Timkin convertion "sleeve" that will convert the bearings with machining but I do not think anyone has any real experience with these yet.

Plus, hasn't there been some issues with the some original bearing bores being off slightly? I thought I read that somewhere. You can correct this when you open up the hole in case to except the Timken bearing, if that is the case.

It requires more teardown than just replacing the shoes or cams, you have to split the cases apart, so you'll need to pull the entire motor.

[Hoist!]

Thanks, I noticed in a recient post about "time to rebuild 103" someone suggested installing the Timken bearing.  I am considering replacing my chain cams with gear cams since I have 14K on my 2nd set of cam shoes and wondered about having the bearing replaced at the same time.

Hold on there. Two different bearings you're talking about. The Timken conversion changes the roller bearings design for the crank assembly inside the cases, to the Timken style bearing, and locks the crank in. It's a much more reliable way of supporting the crank in the bearing. This requires the entire engine to come apart, and the cases split, to do this work. It's a major job.

The cam bearings are changed without removing or taking apart the entire engine. It's a routine job, performed with the engine still in the bike. Entire engine doesn't have to come apart for that.

Sorry if you already knew this. But it not clear that you do from your response. I hope this clears it up.

Hoist!

[EAGLE1]

Well, I just saw it, and Jim explained it better than I could have. I used the Jims conversion Jim speaks of above. It's a new product, but my builder did a test run on my old cases before he determined whether this was a acceptable method for this modification. After he completed it, he was happy with the way it came out. Then my old cases were returned to HD to be destroyed. My new HD cases have the same S/N, so my old ones needed to be returned to HD. My builder then performed this work on my new cases, and it came out like he expected, since he had just done it. So I'm looking forward to a strong reliable bottom and top end now!

Hoist!

Hoist, whats the big deal about gettin new cases with the same S/N considering all the work you have done 

just wondering, because when my warrantee is up and I have exhausted my 103, I was planning on swapin it out with a new 127 billet R&R and be done

[sadunbar]

Hoist, whats the big deal about gettin new cases with the same S/N considering all the work you have done 

just wondering, because when my warrantee is up and I have exhausted my 103, I was planning on swapin it out with a new 127 billet R&R and be done

I don't think you can buy new 110 cases without turning in your old cases...like the frame...Chief had to send the neck of his frame to MOCO to get a new frame...

I think that is the deal..

Scott

[Hoist!]

Hoist, whats the big deal about gettin new cases with the same S/N considering all the work you have done 

just wondering, because when my warrantee is up and I have exhausted my 103, I was planning on swapin it out with a new 127 billet R&R and be done

Hey E1, how's it going!

The '06 Dyna, '07's, and '08's can not accept anything but HD and Jims cases. I didn'ty want a Jims motor. I would've preffered an S&S motor. Since I couldn't buy a crate engine for this bike from anyone but those 2 sources, my only alternative was to build my own. You don't have that issue with your SEFB!

Hoist!

[EAGLE1]

Hey E1, how's it going!

The '06 Dyna, '07's, and '08's can not accept anything but HD and Jims cases. I didn'ty want a Jims motor. I would've preffered an S&S motor. Since I couldn't buy a crate engine for this bike from anyone but those 2 sources, my only alternative was to build my own. You don't have that issue with your SEFB!

Hoist!

ok

Going great howie, sorry to hear about all of your 110 woes, but its made for some great late night readin

Hyperformance says, the R&R Billet 127" engine will bolt into a stock Softail chassis.

but I do remember our brother Stratus reused his cases on his 124" R&R build, I asked him why he didn't go with new billet cases but never got an answer from him.

[Hoist!]

Going great howie, sorry to hear about all of your 110 woes, but its made for some great late night readin

Hyperformance says, the R&R Billet 127" engine will bolt into a stock Softail chassis.

but I do remember our brother Stratus reused his cases on his 124" R&R build, I asked him why he didn't go with new billet cases but never got an answer from him. guess I'll find out when I get serious

I should have been clearer. The Softail's a "B" motor (solid-mount). I was talking about the rubber-mounts.

I too follow all your stuff. The beer stuff you put up is also fun reading. Man, you're more into that than anyone I've seen. Cool hobby. I can't drink much anymore these days, but I would love to taste some of your good stuff sometime!

Take care!
Hoist!

[EAGLE1]

I should have been clearer. The Softail's a "B" motor (solid-mount). I was talking about the rubber-mounts.

I too follow all your stuff. The beer stuff you put up is also fun reading. Man, you're more into that than anyone I've seen. Cool hobby. I can't drink much anymore these days, but I would love to taste some of your good stuff sometime!

Take care!
Hoist!

yup, I got ya on that, but I was unaware and surprised of the fact that your limited to HD or Jims cases. I misread you post, I thought you were getting new S/N cases for reasons of authenticity and thinkin with all the mods you've done who cares 

thanks for the compliments, yea this beer brewin sure has my captured my attention over the years, I guess it's so intriguing because I get to utilize all my mechanical, electrical, and chemical ingineerin skill sets in a fun and productive way, and I get to enjoy all the results   hopefully I'll be able to share some with you sometime soon 

Peace Bro!




sorry for the 

[roadrunner]

Hoist, thanks for the info.  I spoke to Zippers a few minutes ago regarding ordering the 575 gear cam and tapered adj. pushrods, and discussed pinion runout.  HD motor co limits runout is .012.  Zippers recommends 2.5.  There are a couple of options, sending my crank out (if runout is excessive), or purchasing an S&S crank (not sure of other options). From what I have gathered, installing the Timken wont fix the runout issue, only strengthen it after runout is corrected.  Anyone have any experience or comments in this area?  I am going to have the cam shoes and pinion runout checked (Old Glory HD) and go from there.  Thanks!

[Hoist!]

Hoist, thanks for the info.  I spoke to Zippers a few minutes ago regarding ordering the 575 gear cam and tapered adj. pushrods, and discussed pinion runout.  HD motor co limits runout is .012.  Zippers recommends 2.5.  There are a couple of options, sending my crank out (if runout is excessive), or purchasing an S&S crank (not sure of other options). From what I have gathered, installing the Timken wont fix the runout issue, only strengthen it after runout is corrected.  Anyone have any experience or comments in this area?  I am going to have the cam shoes and pinion runout checked (Old Glory HD) and go from there.  Thanks!

Harley's just nuts with their new spec! Zipper's uses the same tolerence as S&S, 0.0025" runout. That's with the crank runout measured on a trueing stand. You're basically correct. The better bearing design (Timken) will help insure the integrity of the bottom end, with the crank you've setup as close to zero runout as possible. Two seperate functions that will help maintain your runout at zero. If you're splitting the cases, you should do the Timken and crank. No question in my mind about that. Bear in mind, this is a complete engine job at that point.

I'm not a fan of the HD pressed flywheels, so I went with an S&S Forged crank. There are companies that weld HD flywheels, or whatever else they do to them. I want a new engine, so Im starting with new parts for my new bike. My bike deserves that. After all, it's never had one yet!

Hoist!