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[Hoist!]

I can see your problem.
The cast pistons must have been bare metal. Ergo, close to zip on expansion, therefore were tight.
The thermal coating ones, they may be playing it safe due to the coating may have a wear factor, creating a later problem after wear.

Again I could be wrong.

No, the cast pistons are coated also. The coating shouldn't wear. Correct fitment means they won't rub the cyl, but are tight enough not to slap around either. It also needs to account for expansion. That's why cast pistons are fitted tighter than forged pistons. The coating lowers the temps on both, but it affects the forged piston more, since it grows more. The lower temp will theoretically allow a tighter fitment.

Hoist!

[vagabond6542]

No, the cast pistons are coated also. The coating shouldn't wear. Correct fitment means they won't rub the cyl, but are tight enough not to slap around either. It also needs to account for expansion. That's why cast pistons are fitted tighter than forged pistons. The coating lowers the temps on both, but it affects the forged piston more, since it grows more. The lower temp will theoretically allow a tighter fitment.

Hoist!

Thanks.

[SPIDERMAN]

Howie
          Pardon my ignorance. 1st time - - who fit the pistons ?  2nd time - - - who fit the pistons ?  I ask because I have been buying complete top ends from the same supplier and getting everything delivered honed gapped and fit as a package. And I'm talking hyperuetectic (sp?) pistons. Like I said, maybe I'm reading your posts wrong but it sounds like somebody other than the cylinder/piston supplier is doing the piston fitting.

B B

[Twolanerider]

Howie
          Pardon my ignorance. 1st time - - who fit the pistons ?  2nd time - - - who fit the pistons ?  I ask because I have been buying complete top ends from the same supplier and getting everything delivered honed gapped and fit as a package. And I'm talking hyperuetectic (sp?) pistons. Like I said, maybe I'm reading your posts wrong but it sounds like somebody other than the cylinder/piston supplier is doing the piston fitting.

B B

BB, as I understand that is precisely at least part of the problem.  Too much trust in other people's words and too much confidence that people were actually as good as they said they were. 

Cylinders from one source.  Pistons from another.  Governance for specification and supply from a third party.  But neither piston nor cylinder had actually met the other until they got to the hands of fourth party installer.

Fourth party is an installer, not a machinist.  He relies on promises of third party (CycleRama) that the first two parties had each done work precisely to his spec.  Of course with the reliability of vendors anymore that's a specious assumption.

It seems that unfortunately several in this mix were at least as interested in getting parts out the door or assembled as they were in making absolutely sure those same parts were positively correct.  You can often get by cutting the occasional small corner.  When too many are cut, no matter the specs, things often come crashing down.

No one, not even Howie, seems to be blameless in this unfortunate fiasco.  Howie realizes that more attention should have been paid early on, that he kind of shot himself in the foot relying on a shop wrench who was in over his head and that he just took too much on faith the promises of those supplying much of what he was buying.  It sucks that as customers we can't just absolutely rely on the promises of those who take our money.

[SPIDERMAN]

BB, as I understand that is precisely at least part of the problem.  Too much trust in other people's words and too much confidence that people were actually as good as they said they were. 

Cylinders from one source.  Pistons from another.  Governance for specification and supply from a third party.  But neither piston nor cylinder had actually met the other until they got to the hands of fourth party installer.

Fourth party is an installer, not a machinist.  He relies on promises of third party (CycleRama) that the first two parties had each done work precisely to his spec.  Of course with the reliability of vendors anymore that's a specious assumption.

It seems that unfortunately several in this mix were at least as interested in getting parts out the door or assembled as they were in making absolutely sure those same parts were positively correct.  You can often get by cutting the occasional small corner.  When too many are cut, no matter the specs, things often come crashing down.

No one, not even Howie, seems to be blameless in this unfortunate fiasco.  Howie realizes that more attention should have been paid early on, that he kind of shot himself in the foot relying on a shop wrench who was in over his head and that he just took too much on faith the promises of those supplying much of what he was buying.  It sucks that as customers we can't just absolutely rely on the promises of those who take our money.

And therein lies the lesson Don, because of the tolerances involved and the relationship of one to another, if anything is learned by a member reading this wondering exactly what went on here it's just that. Nobody should ever piecemeal a top end from one source to another in my opinion. I s'pose the caveat to that would be if the engine builder spec'd, ordered and fit everything himself. But certainly not McNamara's Band as seems the case in Howie's sad tale. I'm thinking Howie paid a high price to learn this lesson and his sharing it with the rest of the site while opening him up to Monday morning quarterbacking certainly offers the membership a valuable lesson.

B B 

[Hoist!]

Yeah, something like Don said. He don't speak so good English tho, so I'm not sure.

To clarify, this was not piece mealed out! The entire top end package was purchased and supplied by Cycle-rama. One vendor. I knew what parts they were using, but they supplied a pre-engineered package!  They were responsible for everything being fitted properly. Since the dealer was building it, no one checked their stuff. Dealer's incapable of that, and expected bolt-on. Cycle-rama assured bolt-on. That didn't happen until a real engine builder, Vern, checked their chit. Finally, someone looking out for my interest! Bottom line, it took Vern checking everything to get them to deliver properly, what I paid for in the first place. That took 3 tries too! My responsibility and mistake was trusting out of town strangers, due to their reputation and recommendation by others. Live and learn bro! You gotta pay to get it right. I should have caught that from the beginning. Shame on me. The motor would never have gone anywhere but Vern, had I known my $32K motorcycle was defectively designed, and the w......ty was worth less than toilet paper!!!. Like I said, FTF and FTW!!!

Hoist!

Added: That's all this is, is a lesson shared. My motor's in someone's hands that will build it right, from scratch. My error started by thinking I had a w.....ty and a capable dealer and vendor. If you need a reliable performance engine, DO NOT COUNT ON HD'S 110 TO BE IT!!! AND DOUBLE CHECK VENDOR'S WORK!!! You're on your own and must pay for perfection! Quoting Hub, THERE ENDETH THE LESSON!!!

[SPIDERMAN]

Seems to me I was posting some stuff on motor builds on another thread and several people jumped all over that thread preaching CycleRama. Sounds like the name should be CustomerRama from what you're saying Howie cause it sure looks like they honed your bunghole better than they did your cylinders.

B B

[Hoist!]

Seems to me I was posting some stuff on motor builds on another thread and several people jumped all over that thread preaching CycleRama. Sounds like the name should be CustomerRama from what you're saying Howie cause it sure looks like they honed your bunghole better than they did your cylinders.

B B

Like I said B B, live and learn! I'm a big boy. Fool me once, that's it! And don't believe everything you read on the internet! That includes here!!!

Hoist!

[SBB]

No one, not even Howie, seems to be blameless in this unfortunate fiasco.  Howie realizes that more attention should have been paid early on, that he kind of shot himself in the foot relying on a shop wrench who was in over his head and that he just took too much on faith the promises of those supplying much of what he was buying. 

I agree completely Don!

How many pages of post did we read that said how good the dealer techs were?
How many pages of post did we read about what a great guy and competent tech Joe was?
How many pages of post did we read that CycleRama was the place to get parts?
Now we are to the point where CycleRama sucks and Vern is the greatest mechanic there is.
Will Vern remain a hero or will he be like the rest that have gone from a hero to a zero in a Hoist nanosecond?
I hope not.

I'm just thankful hd-dude, rednectum, Freedom Cycle, SBC, Tman didn't do any work on the bike.

A good, fast and dependable motor combination requires the following items.

The right combination of parts tried and proven, a competent mechanic that has experience assembling that package, a good tuner that has experience tuning that combination and an owner willing to spend the time, effort and money to find the above.

Yes I agree with you Don!

And I wish good luck to Vern!

SBB

[Hoist!]

I agree completely Don!

How many pages of post did we read that said how good the dealer techs were?
How many pages of post did we read about what a great guy and competent tech Joe was?
How many pages of post did we read that CycleRama was the place to get parts?
Now we are to the point where CycleRama sucks and Vern is the greatest mechanic there is.
Will Vern remain a hero or will he be like the rest that have gone from a hero to a zero in a Hoist nanosecond?
I hope not.

I'm just thankful hd-dude, rednectum, Freedom Cycle, SBC, Tman didn't do any work on the bike.

A good, fast and dependable motor combination requires the following items.

The right combination of parts tried and proven, a competent mechanic that has experience assembling that package, a good tuner that has experience tuning that combination and an owner willing to spend the time, effort and money to find the above.

Yes I agree with you Don!

And I wish good luck to Vern!

SBB

As usual, another one of your posts with your head up your ass!

Relying on an HD tech and w......ty was my major error! I admit that and already have. But you know so much about these 110's that you would know what to do with a brand new w.....ty'd bike! My ass! Relying on this vendor, who was the only one at the time to test and design parts specifically for this 110, and was recommended by someone here who we rely on, seemed like a logical solution at the time. Sorry he wasn't your beloved TMan!

So yeah, say what you want, blame me for the mess. My blame lies in not trusting this bike to someone I knew in advance that I could trust. But thanks for your useless, Monday Morning Quarterback comments. I've grown to expect nothing less from you. You never seem to disappoint either!

Hoist!

[FNGw/08SERK]

   

[SBB]

   

good Howie!

Good news!
Spring will be here soon!
Better news!
Riding season here is around 11 1/2 months.
How's that for motivation?

 

[Hoist!]

That's what I thought!

Hoist!

[Hoist!]

Damn, the whole site's tuned in! This is a perfect time to FART!!!

Hoist!

[hd-dude]

Damn, the whole site's tuned in! This is a perfect time to FART!!!

Hoist!

  Spew.........