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[Classic Beast]

Well let's do this here now.

Engine: Custom-built complete SE TC 110”, 120 HP/126.2 Ft-Lbs TQ before this rebuild. Retune to follow. New HD 110 cases (with my Serial Number) with Timken Bearing Conversion and Feuling #3030 case bolts, new S&S 4-3/8” Forged Crank, crank runout on pinion side is 0.0000” and 0’0005” on comp side (measured on a truing stand). New Thermal Coated CP Forged Pistons and New Rings, New Axtell 4” Cylinders; Modified SE 110 Heads modeled on a computer and flow bench by Cycle-rama, Ported, Decked, and Reworked Combustion Chambers, welded holes for ACR's and added Manual Compression Releases, Feuling #3048 exhaust studs & lock nuts, w/Cometic 0.030 Metal Head Gaskets for a 9.8:1 compression ratio; Thermal Coating of Exhaust Ports and Valves; TP Engineering ProVent Forged Rocker Box Covers w/integral Rocker Arm Supports and TP Roller Rockers and shafts; 62 mm HPI Throttle Body w/4.89 Injectors and Ported Manifold w/HPI High Flow A/C Assembly and Stock SERK 110 Cover. Engine has modified Cycle-rama CR 595 Gear-Drive Custom Cams w/S&S Gears; S&S Reed Valve Oil Breather; Feuling #4050 Race Series High Performance Lifters; Feuling #8015 Camplate with Oil Tensioner Block Off Plates and Feuling #8018 Pressure Relief Spring, Feuling #7969 Oil Pump, and Feuling #8020 Camplate/Oil Pump Fasteners; Feuling #4070 Race Series HP+ 0.120" Racing Adjustable Pushrods w/S&S PR Covers; Feuling #3000 High Tensile Shouldered Cylinder Studs and Head bolts; Feuling/ARP complete engine SS 12 Point Hardware; D&D FatCats w/Quiet Performance Muffler (which is not very quiet!).

Now for the failure. Unforunately no way of knowing what took what out, but the front intake lifter was wiped out. So was the cam. The wheel on the lifter wore flat on one side indicating it wasn't spinning. Other lobes on both cams are also worn, but not as bad. Vern thinks the cams might not have been hardened properly. That syncrap could've also caused slippage between the roller on the lifter til it statrted wearing a flat spot. The lifter could have taken the cam out. No way of knowing what came first.

Vern thinks that cam is too radical for a long lasting motor. He thinks it creates very volatile combustion and is very tough on the valve train. It makes gobs of torque right from the bottom, but at what cost?

Decision time!!!

What cam to use now? How are the heads setup now with the valve springs? Don't know! They appear to be SE springs good to 640 lift, but not sure. Part of me wants to backoff from what's in there now and use an S&S 585 for longevity. But I'm afraid I might not be happy by giving that bottom end grunt I'm used to. Can't believe torque will be above 80 at 2 grand, while I have 100 now! Part of me wants to go bigger with the S&S 640! Don't want to over cam it again either. The bike was tuned perfectly to my current setup. I'd like to get fairly close and see if I can keep the tune.

What to do?? Any ideas on cams. Don't ask, but no Mackie, Zippers, or Cyclerama. He's not familiar with Bobby Woods stuff. But he likes to try to stay with current proven production cams as opposed to special  custom stuff. He didn't design this engine and never got specs. So he can't properly determine what he'd like to see go in. He just knows I'll be way safe with the S&S 585.

Scott, do you have specs on your motor setup? I doubt I'll receive help myself from CR. I might just pull the heads and have Vern measure everything and come up with a combination that he thinks will work. He can check valve spring pressures and travel, and make sure the heads are setup for the cam we use. Hate to have to go that route when the top end is just fine. I'd like to just select a new cam, around .600-.615 lift, that might match up well to my current motor design. It ran like a MoFo, but too hard on the valvetrain. Any ideas gurus??

Thanks!

Hoist!

Added: I'll be now changing to S&S lifters with limiters, S&S pushrods, SE camplate and SE oil pump as I won't reuse that stuff with all that damage done. Finding the right cam, and deciding whether to pull the top end off is my conundrum!

Just to add to the radical cam issue, I am running a .640 lift 268 duration cam in my 127, my 110 runs an S&S .600 lift no durability issues so far, these are both in EVO motors which have a harder time dealing with radical cam profiles than the twinkie. With the modern Metalurgy in current products, springs, lifters, cams etc the radical cams are not as much of an issue than even 10 years ago.  I don't believe the skidding story with Synthetic oils I use them at work in Algeria in extreme heat 150 degrees outside in the saraha desert we very carefully tested synthetic oils compared to Regular oil as we have on staff a lubrication engineer. Many engine failures with the standard oil none with the synthetic. These are in engines with much more extreme stresses than a harley engine (roller lifters etc) 1600 Hp we cannot use aluminum pistons in these engines as they melt due to 50psi boost pressures from the turbos. Just my Humble Opinion

[Twolanerider]

correct me if my scorecard is wrong here but,

 current cams are a custom grind from CR

 current cams have signs of damage

 if i scored this right howie will not be buying another custom set of cams from CR

Being as fair as one can everyone would admit that right now (and likely forever) which is the chicken and which is the egg won't be known.  Cams are a failure and so is a lifter.  Regarding more CR cams it wouldn't matter to me though where the failure was.

The quasi-one-off nature of the product makes resupply a problem.  And the company was such a problem last time.  Can remember Howie waiting and waiting and waiting (and waiting some more) for cams to get cut.  And being promised and promised and promised and promised (and put off some more) saying they were close.  No vendor is worth that kind of hassle.  They're just not.

Even if one accepts as gospel that the heads were somehow specially tweaked to flow and otherwise work well with the larger package including these special, unique, wonderful, effective, darling (FLAT) cams there are off the shelf products that are at least close.  Certainly close enough that a good tuner can and will bring the package back together.  Knowing that I'd care not whether the cams themselves were a fault or not.  I'd just be run like hell from the hassle that was the vendor.

[Hoist!]

Thanks for the input Classic and very well stated Don. That sums up why I'm looking at other vendors for a more"off-the-shelf" product!

And BTW, we will definitely be pulling the top end off!

Hoist!

[Classic Beast]

Being as fair as one can everyone would admit that right now (and likely forever) which is the chicken and which is the egg won't be known.  Cams are a failure and so is a lifter.  Regarding more CR cams it wouldn't matter to me though where the failure was.

The quasi-one-off nature of the product makes resupply a problem.  And the company was such a problem last time.  Can remember Howie waiting and waiting and waiting (and waiting some more) for cams to get cut.  And being promised and promised and promised and promised (and put off some more) saying they were close.  No vendor is worth that kind of hassle.  They're just not.

Even if one accepts as gospel that the heads were somehow specially tweaked to flow and otherwise work well with the larger package including these special, unique, wonderful, effective, darling (FLAT) cams there are off the shelf products that are at least close.  Certainly close enough that a good tuner can and will bring the package back together.  Knowing that I'd care not whether the cams themselves were a fault or not.  I'd just be run like hell from the hassle that was the vendor.

Very good advice, since I am such a newbie here I haven't heard about the hassle with the cam. I read back a bit further as saw where you mentioned it wasn't just the one lobe on one cam so very obviously some issue with the metal there but really brings up more questions. Howie it must have been making a lot of noise for you to start to investigate did it slowly get worse and good thing you made it home.

[Hoist!]

Yep, got me thru the season! Now it's time for engine #3 for next season!!! An engine a year was not what I had in mind, but I told youze I can break anything!!!

Just got off with Vern. Very concerned where all the particles wound up now. Clogged oil jets? Damage to anything in the new bottom end? We're yanking the motor, splitting the cases and starting from scratch. Hopefully the Timken and S&S crank are OK. He'll clean up everything properly this way and make sure all oil passages are clear. There'll be no possibility of debris or particles remaining to cause future damage. I shouldn't have to ride it looking over my shoulder this way!

We're prolly using the S&S-625G and keep the CR at 9.8:1 with the same CP forged pistons unless there's also damage to the cylinder walls. Then I'll have to bore it 10 over and change pistons again too. Might go back to cast flat-top pistons for a cooler engine and tighter clearances. We've got all winter now, so I'll let ya'll know if anything changes beyond this. But this appears to be the best failsafe way to go now!

Hoist!

[Hoist!]

Very good advice, since I am such a newbie here I haven't heard about the hassle with the cam. I read back a bit further as saw where you mentioned it wasn't just the one lobe on one cam so very obviously some issue with the metal there but really brings up more questions. Howie it must have been making a lot of noise for you to start to investigate did it slowly get worse and good thing you made it home.

It started on my way down to MV, maybe even a little earlier, and gradually got louder. I was committed and what was to be was to be. If it blew down there....well ya'll know the deal. But by the time I got back, she was misfiring too besides the noise. I knew the motor was cooked by then already!

Hoist!

[Hugh Janis]

It started on my way down to MV, maybe even a little earlier, and gradually got louder. I was committed and what was to be was to be. If it blew down there....well ya'll know the deal. But by the time I got back, she was misfiring too besides the noise. I knew the motor was cooked by then already!

Hoist!

I knew it!

Sorry about the new engine troubles Howie.  Will 3 engines in 3 years influence how you ride?

[Hoist!]

I knew it!

Sorry about the new engine troubles Howie.  Will 3 engines in 3 years influence how you ride?

No Fing way Jim!!!

Hoist!

[Hugh Janis]

No Fing way Jim!!!

Hoist!

I want to grow up to be just like you!

[Hoist!]

I want to grow up to be just like you!

HeHe!!! That's just it! I WON'T GROW UP!!!

Smoke em til the wheels fall off!!! Hellride forever!!!

Hoist!

[Classic Beast]

Andrews 59G cam, healthy lift and good duration. The base circle on this cam is larger than an S&S 625G so it'll probably be easier on the valve train, just a thought or something to think about. Not saying this should be the cam but just a comparison between the 2 of them. So many cams so many choices. I see quite a few guys on this forum like the Red shift cams, haven't tried any of them yet but they look interesting. The last 2 motors I did a 95" and a 103" one with the 257 and second with the 258 SE cams both pull really well and totally quiet I mean not even a slight tick these were not my choices but wishes of the owners certainly food for thought and the results seem to be good. Both of these guys abuse their bikes, not warming them up and bouncing off the rev limiter set at 6200 as neither has a tach.

[Classic Beast]

I'm with you Howie the motor has to adapt to us not us to the motor if it has to come down every winter then we know it's good for the next year. That used to be the norm with the old shovels anyways as the old 3/8" valves and cast iron guides didn't last that long.

[Talon]

Hey Howie, sorry to hear about your problems. Did you talk to Wes about this to see what he had to say?

[BigLew]

Howie sorry to hear about your troubles, but glad you got home safe. Good luck with the rebuild. you could use some good fortune.

God's Speed
Mike

[harleyteam]

do we see a Jims 131 in your future?