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[110tHunDer]

That me, just like you, unless you have an accurate answer on how it works!

Would love to hear it!

 

I'm not running one, you are!   I only know what I've already seen posted on this forum many times.  That is, that the PC uses the map loaded in the ECM as its baseline.  So that can be a stock map, or a canned Stage I map, or a custom SERT map, doesn't matter.  But the PC does care what's in the ECM.

[Hoist!]

Since you asked?
No rocket scientist here.
Just another arm chair quarterback that not really sure how it works.
Just wondering who can tell us how the addition of a PC to a Harley ECM affects how a signal get to the injectors and or the timing?

1) Does the PC changes the messages the ECM gets to reflect the map in the PC?

OR

2) Does the ECM send the message to the PC which changes the message to reflect the map loaded in the PC?
************************************************************************************


What happened to the great tune by Springer?

 

HeHe! Hope ya figure it out! Especially since you run a SERT!

And if ya read everything I said, you'll see that I've explained from the beginning that the bike pops and seems to have lost a little top end. I was gonna go back up there. Don't have the time. Spend a few days reading and you could have saved me the time of answering this. Oh yeah, but I don't read what I write. I just like to hear myself talk!

You guys should form a washroom ladies club instead of a chithead club!!!

Hoist!

[SBB]

I'm not running one, you are!   I only know what I've already seen posted on this forum many times.  That is, that the PC uses the map loaded in the ECM as its baseline.  So that can be a stock map, or a canned Stage I map, or a custom SERT map, doesn't matter.  But the PC does care what's in the ECM.

I only know what I've already seen posted on this forum many times.  

OK  103

I understand now.

You only know what you have seen posted on this forum many times.

Cool!

 
****************************************************

And for the record Hoist.

I have three SERT's and one Power Commander and I haven't a clue as to how any of them really work.

I just know they do.

But as a arm chair quarterback I love tossing out how I think they work.

As has become very clear from the post above, I'm not alone!

 

[110tHunDer]

I have three SERT's and one Power Commander and I haven't a clue as to how any of them really work.
I just know they do.

But as a arm chair quarterback I love tossing out how I think they work.

As has become very clear from the post above, I'm not alone!

 

But yet you can reply with a resolute "Exactly!"

Good thing there is enough accurate information posted elsewhere on the site so that those who've at least taken the time to read and absorb some of it can set the record straight.

 

[Hoist!]

OK  103

I understand now.

You only know what you have seen posted on this forum many times.

Cool!

 
****************************************************

And for the record Hoist.

I have three SERT's and one Power Commander and I haven't a clue as to how any of them really work.

I just know they do.

But as a arm chair quarterback I love tossing out how I think they work.

As has become very clear from the post above, I'm not alone!

 

If it's that important that you know exactly how they work, I suggest you read all of the manufacturer's literature, call Dynojet and HD engineering and get some  books about them, and survey the many experts that you know. Between all of that, you might understand how they work. Then again, maybe not. Wow, maybe this chit IS rocket science after all!!! And for all the good that does! You still need to bring it to a tuning expert and his dyno. I'm content on knowing what they need to DO TO MY BIKE, and how to deal with these devices, and people that tune it. But I'm too lazy to do all that research. Please follow up on that and get back to me on how this stuff works. Maybe a copy of the circuit diagram of the PC's circuit boards might help me understand better!

Hoist!

[SBB]

Exactly!

 

But yet you can reply with a resolute "Exactly!"

Now there's the pot calling the kettle black!

As you said,

I'm not running one, you are!

This is fun, you know exactly but you don't have one!


Again  Cool!

 

[110tHunDer]

Now there's the pot calling the kettle black!

As you said,This is fun, you know exactly but you don't have one!


Again  Cool!

 

Yeah, cool!   No, what's "fun" is you have one but you don't really know it works . . . and that you can't tell I was makin' fun of you by using the exact reply you did earlier!   Go back and read some of the prior, accurate posts on this subject and learn like I did.  You're not saying this place isn't a good source of info. now are ya?!?

[SBB]

If it's that important that you know exactly how they work, I suggest you read all of the manufacturer's literature, call Dynojet and HD engineering and get some  books about them, and survey the many experts that you know. Between all of that, you might understand how they work. Then again, maybe not. Wow, maybe this chit IS rocket science after all!!! And for all the good that does! You still need to bring it to a tuning expert and his dyno. I'm content on knowing what they need to DO TO MY BIKE, and how to deal with these devices, and people that tune it. But I'm too lazy to do all that research. Please follow up on that and get back to me on how this stuff works. Maybe a copy of the circuit diagram of the PC's circuit boards might help me understand better!

Hoist!

Well chit Hoist,

I have to agree with you on this one.
Send me to school, tattoo on my forehead and I still wouldn't understand how it works.

So again,

Just wondering who can tell us how the addition of a PC to a Harley ECM affects how a signal get to the injectors and or the timing?

1) Does the PC changes the messages the ECM gets to reflect the map in the PC?

OR

2) Does the ECM send the message to the PC which changes the message to reflect the map loaded in the PC?

I think that's a simple question and if the answer is simple enough I can then repeat the answer someday if someone ask.

After all,

I only know what I've already seen posted on this forum many times.

Cool!

 

[SBB]

Yeah, cool!  
You're not saying this place isn't a good source of info. now are ya?!?

Exactly!
Your right again I'm not saying that!
So do you know how they work or you just upping your post count?
 

[Hoist!]

There's actually not much out there on EXACTLY how it woeks. They tell you what it will do for you and how it hooks up. I found this and stopped looking. The guy makes as much sense as anything I've heard. This is from the HD Forum after a Google. Dynojet tells you much less. They don't want you to know EXACTLY!!!

"How the Power Commander III works

The Power Commander is a piggy back device. This means it is installed between the ECM and the EFI wiring harness. It remains attached to the bike after installation.

The PCIII DOES NOT modify any of the internal lookup tables. It interprets the data coming into the ECM from the sensors above and manipulates the signals to make the ECM see different readings. At the same time it manipulates the output signals to the fuel injectors and ignition coils to achieve the desired results.


This isn't as easy as it sounds. The PCIII has to do the following to work correctly:

Analyze the incoming signals
Determine the proper fuel and ignition advance required
Determine what signals and values to change
Change it's output signals to the ECM, Injectors and Ignition to achieve the desired result

And do it in a constantly changing environment

I'm not sure the the exact method they use to achieve their results but I'm pretty sure it's a combination reading the ECM inputs and manipulating the signal pulse width to the fuel injectors and delaying or advancing the signal to the ignition coils.

This is all controlled by map files that you or your tuner manipulate and download into the PCIII.

The newer USB version offers an accelerator enrichment function (not really needed on our bikes since that is part of the basic function of the ECM) as well as the ability to modify the front and rear cylinder independently."

I think to find out EXACTLY how Dynojet does that, you'd probably need to contact them and ask for that proprietary information. I'm sure they'd be happy to oblige!!!

Hope this helps. (If it's right! After all, I read it on the internet!!!)

Hoist!

[SBB]

There's actually not much out there on EXACTLY how it woeks. They tell you what it will do for you and how it hooks up. I found this and stopped looking. The guy makes as much sense as anything I've heard. This is from the HD Forum after a Google. Dynojet tells you much less. They don't want you to know EXACTLY!!!

"How the Power Commander III works

The Power Commander is a piggy back device. This means it is installed between the ECM and the EFI wiring harness. It remains attached to the bike after installation.

The PCIII DOES NOT modify any of the internal lookup tables. It interprets the data coming into the ECM from the sensors above and manipulates the signals to make the ECM see different readings. At the same time it manipulates the output signals to the fuel injectors and ignition coils to achieve the desired results.


This isn't as easy as it sounds. The PCIII has to do the following to work correctly:

Analyze the incoming signals
Determine the proper fuel and ignition advance required
Determine what signals and values to change
Change it's output signals to the ECM, Injectors and Ignition to achieve the desired result

And do it in a constantly changing environment

I'm not sure the the exact method they use to achieve their results but I'm pretty sure it's a combination reading the ECM inputs and manipulating the signal pulse width to the fuel injectors and delaying or advancing the signal to the ignition coils.

This is all controlled by map files that you or your tuner manipulate and download into the PCIII.

The newer USB version offers an accelerator enrichment function (not really needed on our bikes since that is part of the basic function of the ECM) as well as the ability to modify the front and rear cylinder independently."

I think to find out EXACTLY how Dynojet does that, you'd probably need to contact them and ask for that proprietary information. I'm sure they'd be happy to oblige!!!

Hope this helps. (If it's right! After all, I read it on the internet!!!)

Hoist!

Hoist

Appreciate you looking up this info.


I guess my questions are still the same.

Does the PC change the signals to the ECM?

or

Does the PC change the signals from the ECM?

 

[Twolanerider]

I guess my questions are still the same.

Does the PC change the signals to the ECM?

or

Does the PC change the signals from the ECM?

I sat up one evening drinking adult beverages with someone who'd been to their schools.  One of the topics was the Power Commander.  The explanation was logical, relatively obvious and not contradicted by what we actually see in practice.  That doesn't always mean it's right.  But it satisfied me.

It's not all "to" and "from."  Not that simple.  Basically, however, the description is that sensor and other info/data is "in" to the ECM.  Engine management instruction is "out" from the ECM.  The Power Commander takes that engine management instruction, adjusts it according to the instructions given in the loaded map, and sends it on to the engine.

[SBB]

I sat up one evening drinking adult beverages with someone who'd been to their schools.  One of the topics was the Power Commander.  The explanation was logical, relatively obvious and not contradicted by what we actually see in practice.  That doesn't always mean it's right.  But it satisfied me.

It's not all "to" and "from."  Not that simple.  Basically, however, the description is that sensor and other info/data is "in" to the ECM.  Engine management instruction is "out" from the ECM.  The Power Commander takes that engine management instruction, adjusts it according to the instructions given in the loaded map, and sends it on to the engine.

Thanks!

But it satisfied me.

Exactly!
And that answer satisfies me also!

 

 

[miker]

Thanks!


Exactly!
And that answer satisfies me also!

 

 

But in/out is the operation with interuptters...

Tables in the ecm are slewed by sert and flashed to the memory, the formulae are modified. 
Tables in the ecm are interupted by PC and rebroadcast via map mods in the PC.
A PC is an outside agency, sert is keyed programming.

Sorry for the confusion.  I'll shut up now.....well for a little while...

[Fired00d]

But in/out is the operation with interuptters...

Tables in the ecm are slewed by sert and flashed to the memory, the formulae are modified. 
Tables in the ecm are interupted by PC and rebroadcast via map mods in the PC.
A PC is an outside agency, sert is keyed programming.

Sorry for the confusion.  I'll shut up now.....well for a little while...

Is it to early to start drinking beer and bourbon?? 

 
Ride Safe,
Fired00d