Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[ccr]

Howie, so sorry to hear about your latest problems.  It just sucks. 

[AMP]

If cams weren't hardened they wouldn't last 100 miles, much less the mileage that has been put on these. Thousands of miles and several dyno Tunes. Lets be realistic and factual, not emotional.

Most of the cams on the market, and certainly all of the ones mentioned here start with the very same cores.....THAT is where the hardening happens.

There are several causes that could result in what has occurred.







 

[AMP]

Splitting the cases for this kind of damage is totally unnecessary, unless someone thinks there is a problem with the original build. The oiling system of these motorcycles doesn't allow that type of cross contamination.

[Classic Beast]

I would agree as the oil goes from bottom end into the cam chest out through the oil pump and back to the tank then through the filter before it gets back into the engine. The lifters feed the top end but through the lifter bores not from the cam chest or the rollers. Use a magnet inside the rocker boxes to see if there is any metal pieces but probably not unless it plugged up your oil filter and it was bypassing.

[Twolanerider]

If cams weren't hardened they wouldn't last 100 miles, much less the mileage that has been put on these. Thousands of miles and several dyno Tunes. Lets be realistic and factual, not emotional.

Most of the cams on the market, and certainly all of the ones mentioned here start with the very same cores.....THAT is where the hardening happens.

There are several causes that could result in what has occurred.

 

It seems that (several potential causes) has already been said.  No one has claimed to know with any certainty what caused what.  More or less likely options?  Sure.  Does he know for sure; nope.

At this point it really doesn't matter either.  Now the repair is about making the bike reliable and its owner feel secure.  Vendor questions can bear on that and rightly so.  As can supply availability.  And just whatever else it takes to make a guy not feel the heebeegeebies. 

How far it gets torn down is up to Howie.  His money.  His time.  And he's the one that has laid on eyes.  From the descriptions given so far I wouldn't split the cases.  I'd just clean clean clean and use up four or five oil filters in the first 150 miles.  But what I'd do is irrelevant.  Howie has to be comfortable on the bike; not any of the rest of us.

[AMP]

It seems that (several potential causes) has already been said.  No one has claimed to know with any certainty what caused what.  More or less likely options?  Sure.  Does he know for sure; nope.

At this point it really doesn't matter either.  Now the repair is about making the bike reliable and its owner feel secure.  Vendor questions can bear on that and rightly so.  As can supply availability.  And just whatever else it takes to make a guy not feel the heebeegeebies. 

How far it gets torn down is up to Howie.  His money.  His time.  And he's the one that has laid on eyes.  From the descriptions given so far I wouldn't split the cases.  I'd just clean clean clean and use up four or five oil filters in the first 150 miles.  But what I'd do is irrelevant.  Howie has to be comfortable on the bike; not any of the rest of us.

And THAT is why I posted here. I am stating only facts. We all get the cores from the same place. THAT was the hold up on the original cams, nothing else.

The other post was purely FYI.

If the motor isn't clean when assembled, an oil filter will not save you. Oil tank and oil lines do need to be cleaned also. (this is purely FYI as well)

[SPIDERMAN]

We need to chill down on this thread. I talked to Howie this morning and he was talkin so fast I almost couldn't understand him and my oldest talks at warp speed so I'm used to it. I'm worried Howie's gonna go into fibrillation and join me in the ranks of the retired over this. Hey, that'd give me something to do wouldn't it. Okay guys never mind my opening statement, fire away.

B B

[Twolanerider]

And THAT is why I posted here. I am stating only facts. We all get the cores from the same place. THAT was the hold up on the original cams, nothing else.

The other post was purely FYI.

If the motor isn't clean when assembled, an oil filter will not save you. Oil tank and oil lines do need to be cleaned also. (this is purely FYI as well)

Belaboring some extant fault for a local inability to supply is still a local inability to supply. The excuses really don't matter.  It was the unmet promises, repetitive ones at that, that were discussed earlier.  A vendor should either stand up or shut up.  Trying to cut the middle ground and make excuses while also making promises unfounded won't cut it with an informed client base.  Purely FYI of course.

[Classic Beast]

But it's so much fun when your spending someone else's money. Too many choices with what to do can certainly be confusing fortunately with Vern's experience and his being able to have a close look at the motor himself I'm sure there will be some good choices made. I just feel bad with all the care that was taken and money spent to make this motor right it had to end this way. Maybe just a small hickup that could end well. I had the key come out of my oil pump one time on a fresh 84" shovel motor on the hiway, looked down to see the guage go to 0, of course my heart just sank but lucked out and caught it in time, no damage, just replaced the key and the circlip and back in business, the first and last time it was in the back of the truck. The next trip the same bike had the front end run over by a JD tractor while parked, just broke the kickstand man those old wideglides are tough.

[Twolanerider]

Hey Howie.  Got it running yet?

[AMP]

Absolutely not belaboring. Thanks for thinking of my well being.

The cores were promised on a certain date. They were not delivered. To anyone. Period. That was explained fully to Howie. I know. I was there. You can sift through Howies many posts and see that he asked for special cams. He was advised to go with the cams he had(which are very similar). His choice. Cycle-Rama, went with it.

I would like to stick to factual events, unless there is some rule against it.

[Twolanerider]

But it's so much fun when your spending someone else's money. Too many choices with what to do can certainly be confusing fortunately with Vern's experience and his being able to have a close look at the motor himself I'm sure there will be some good choices made.

Amen says the voice from the choir.  Can you imagine poor Howie right now without Vern there to make him feel better.  Randam trajectory ballistic orbital mail order yapping induced velocity.  Lord help us all.

Howie is doing fine (as can be expected).  Patience and homework and Vern will get him home.  Others that aren't friends with their own axes to grind or hubris to defend will no doubt chime in (and probably not look well for the effort).  But to the rest of us it's all about Howie and Cybil right now.  Whatever works for them works for all (the rest) of us. 

[Twolanerider]

Absolutely not belaboring. Thanks for thinking of my well being.

The cores were promised on a certain date. They were not delivered. To anyone. Period. That was explained fully to Howie. I know. I was there. You can sift through Howies many posts and see that he asked for special cams. He was advised to go with the cams he had(which are very similar). His choice. Cycle-Rama, went with it.

I would like to stick to factual events, unless there is some rule against it.

No, you wouldn't you nosey wench Madame Vendor.  The rest of us are feeling bad for a guy with a busted bike and curb racing over what he might do; feeling his pain.  You're (without great subtlety) trying to make sure your ox isn't gored in the process.  It's not about you; dammit.  It's about Howie.  So shut the hell up.

You want facts.  The facts of this discussion as they concern you are a customer waited a long time for cams.  Period.  Reasons why don't matter.  Because of that he's going to look elsewhere.  Period.  It happens.  Go wait on the next customer.

There is no great light shining on your shop and no defense that needs to be made.  At least none other than the light that you keep bringing to bear on yourself because you're not nearly as adept as you think you are at trying to make yourself look better.

[Hoist!]

I love getting everyone's creative juices flowing!!!

Thanks Don, but don't waste your breath. Not worth the grief. I can take it from here if all she wants to do here is fight! I love a good fight anyway!!!

Listen up. The lifter wheel turned to dust over time! It wore a flat spot on it, not broke. There are no metal chunks to be found anywhere. This says to us that there's fine metal grit/dust everywhere no. Sitting in crevices, on the rough surfaces, in the oil cooler, lines, etc. WTH knows where else. There is no way of assuring a thoroughly clean engine without rebuilding it. We have another member with a blown motor that only cleaned it up by removing the top end. His motor is now on it's 3rd blowup. And some of us are of the opinion that it should have been completely taken apart and thoroughly cleaned after the 1st blowup. Happens to be built originally by the same vendor I got my parts from. I refuse to get into another pissing contest with this vendor again. At this point it would be a waste of my time. But I'm not happy with what I see of their track record, so this vendor doesn't appear to be able to offer any value to my situation whatsoever. But if they choose to fight about this too, F it, I'll fight! Funny how we only see this vendor when something happens to a motor they design and/or build, and usually to defend themselves! So let's move on from discussions with Pam please. Also of note is how Wes never has anything to offer on any of this at any time either. Vern's my builder and I'll go by what he feels is best at this point!

Since this part wore to dust, we're dismantling the motor and replacing ALL the bearings. New Timken, new cam bearings, and if the bottom has any signs of wear or grit, the crank's going back to S&S to get rebuilt as well. Like Don said, nobody's paying but me. And for my peace of mind, this motor will be built as new again! It will stay 110" unless I have to go for oversized pistons due to wear on the barrel surfaces. I'll know more when we tear it down. No further work was done to it today. There'll be no Jims 131, no larger barrels or crank. I was very happy with the performance of the 110. Just gotta lick my wounds and move on. Chit happens, and I'm no angel with it either. Like for all the years before this, I break chit, I fix it! There endeth the lesson!

Hoist!

[ccr]

... Like for all the years before this, I break chit, I fix it! There endeth the lesson!

Hoist!

We are still sorry to hear of this though. Good on you for keeping it light.