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Author Topic: Oil Pressure when riding?  (Read 7321 times)

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grc

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Re: Oil Pressure when riding?
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2008, 10:07:21 PM »

Prolly better off. If your oil lite is off, you must be OK then! ::) ;)

Hoist! 8)

Assuming the bulb isn't blown.

Fortunately, Harley has another redundant warning device built in.  When the oil pump finally gives up the ghost, the lifters will give you an audible alarm.

Jerry

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Re: Oil Pressure when riding?
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2008, 11:00:50 PM »

I have around 6K miles on my '07 CVO Ultra.  So far have had 2 head gasket failures.  Lately when riding, warmed up around 2-2.5 K rpm I have around 21 lbs oil pressure...I seem to remember around 32 lbs at this rpm warmed up a while back...you guys got any info or input?

Like Jerry (GRC) stated, the oil pressure needs to be checked with a manual gauge to make sure your gauge or sending unit isn't bad.  If the oil pressure is indeed low, many 110 owners have had too much crank runout which in turn takes out the oil pump.

I would take it to the dealer to have the oil pressure checked and a new motor installed if the crank run out is too great.  Good luck and let us know what happens.
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AXIL

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Re: Oil Pressure when riding?
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2008, 11:52:15 PM »

hdctss and hoist ,  the description sounded like syn3 oil presser. I use mobil 1 myself, it's late and Iam tired let me get back with you tomarrow.  good nite y'all.
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Re: Oil Pressure when riding?
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2008, 11:58:27 PM »

hdctss and hoist ,  the description sounded like syn3 oil presser. I use mobil 1 myself, it's late and Iam tired let me get back with you tomarrow.  good nite y'all.

 :nixweiss: :nixweiss: :nixweiss:

I have great OP AXIL. I use Mobil 1 too, and a Feuling pump. ;)

Hoist! 8)
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Texas 103

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Re: Oil Pressure when riding?
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2008, 07:42:11 AM »

Texas what's a Baisley?

That's A Baisley OIl Pressure Relief Spring. LMR-2. Avaliable  Here http://www.baisley.com/ Here's quote  from another Forum

Just had to post that I had the LMR-2 (aka) "Baisley Spring" installed in my '06 FLTRI...Man what a difference, I am running a stock 88 ci and the marbles are all but gone...The noise in the upper motor have quit by about 98%, there is a slight noise but very very little compared to prior to the spring install....For those of you who are tired of that singer sewing machine sound and the dealer saying oh that's normal...Get the Latus Motor Sports LMR-2 spring and install it. Well worth it. ($12.95 plus S&H)

I am now running Mobil-1 Full Synthetic 20-50 V-Twin oil before I had the spring installed (paranoided to get in the motor even though many say it is any easy install) I tried running full synthetic oil and couldn't stand all the racket coming from the motor so I switched back to Dino oil....which helped quiet the marbles some...Now Mobil-1 and the LMR-2 spring and I couldn't be happier!!!! Can't wait till summer to see if it cooled the motor off any, riding in winter I need all the heat I can get, rode this past weekend in 30 degree weather nice but still a touch chilly (forgot my heated socks )

Should have been the first thing I did to my motor!!!
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REGGAB

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Re: Oil Pressure when riding?
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2008, 02:59:14 PM »

I run between 35-38psi when cruising.  Can't remember what it is at idle, but it is higher than it was when I had a stock oil pump.
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Capo

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Re: Oil Pressure when riding?
« Reply #21 on: May 09, 2008, 01:49:38 AM »

That's A Baisley OIl Pressure Relief Spring. LMR-2. Avaliable  Here http://www.baisley.com/ Just had to post that I had the LMR-2 (aka) "Baisley Spring" installed in my '06 FLTRI...Man what a difference,.Get the Latus Motor Sports LMR-2 spring and install it. Well worth it. ($12.95 plus S&H)

Thanks Texas FYI the sight comes up as under construction and when I find this I'll post-I will try the phone number tomorrow.
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Re: Oil Pressure when riding?
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2008, 08:49:54 AM »

Capo,

That refers to a shim for the oil pressure bypass valve spring, or a stronger spring.  The higher the spring tension, the higher the oil pressure (up to the design limitations of the pump). 

One word of caution for the "if a little is good, more has to be better" crowd, excessively high oil pressure is not necessarily a good thing. 

Jerry

Jerry,
thanks I understand now. So that begs the question-if this spring eliminates the "noises like sewing machines" from the top end is that bad? Anyone know if these pressures translate to in creased flow? Seems logical that if there is no change to the oil path-increaseing pressure should equal increased flow and improved lubrication leading to longer life in those components. Similarly if the flow remains unchanged the 56% increase in pressure may create other problems. Where can the reality be confirmed?

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Re: Oil Pressure when riding?
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2008, 12:27:42 AM »

OK,

Here is what my 07 SEUC is running at with Amsoil 20w50 V-twin

Oil Pressure warmin up 18-20
Oil Pressure at 2500 rpm warm 34
Oil Temp after 30 minutes 20 mile ride thru moderate traffic 226 degrees pressure 34# outside temp 80 degrees

Hope this helps

Mark
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Capo

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Re: Oil Pressure when riding?
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2008, 07:59:15 AM »

OK,

Here is what my 07 SEUC is running at with Amsoil 20w50 V-twin

Oil Pressure warmin up 18-20
Oil Pressure at 2500 rpm warm 34
Oil Temp after 30 minutes 20 mile ride thru moderate traffic 226 degrees pressure 34# outside temp 80 degrees

Hope this helps

Mark


Mark,
Is this testimonial folllowing the LMR-2? These pressures at least using my stock OP gauge look similar and the temps as well with the ambient being under 70 so far.
Thanks
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Re: Oil Pressure when riding?
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2008, 08:40:23 AM »

Mark,
Is this testimonial folllowing the LMR-2? These pressures at least using my stock OP gauge look similar and the temps as well with the ambient being under 70 so far.
Thanks

Capo,

I don't have the LMR-2, and yes this is stock OP gauge. Oil temp at the reservoir with LED temp dipstick.

Mark
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Capo

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Re: Oil Pressure when riding?
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2008, 08:42:59 AM »

Mark thanks I am seeking the reality based details of the pros/cons of the LMR-2 as that pertains to improved oil delivery to the top end to "stop the voices".

Capo
« Last Edit: May 10, 2008, 01:19:55 PM by Capo »
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grc

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Re: Oil Pressure when riding?
« Reply #27 on: May 10, 2008, 09:12:47 AM »

Jerry,
thanks I understand now. So that begs the question-if this spring eliminates the "noises like sewing machines" from the top end is that bad? Anyone know if these pressures translate to in creased flow? Seems logical that if there is no change to the oil path-increaseing pressure should equal increased flow and improved lubrication leading to longer life in those components. Similarly if the flow remains unchanged the 56% increase in pressure may create other problems. Where can the reality be confirmed?



Capo,

Don't let my little comment worry you, installing a Baisley spring is highly unlikely to increase pressure and flow to the point of causing any damage.  I just throw that comment out for that group of people who really do believe if a little bit is good, a whole lot must be better.  Trust me, they are out there.  Assuming the learned folks on this site know better than to fire up a cold engine and immediately ride off at high rpm, a 15 psi increase in bypass valve setting isn't going to cause seal failures and leaks.

One area with a Harley that I would be concerned about is oil carryover or blow-by, due to the marginal design of the breather system.  If someone already has problems with excessive oil in the air cleaner, jacking up the oil pressure and flow is only going to make it worse.  The oil system is designed as a whole, with the oil passages, drain back passages, and air/oil separators sized to work with a particular viscosity of oil at a particular flow rate.  As is true of most engineered products, changing just one of the many variables seldom results in a total win/win.  If a simple change to the stock spring tension was the cure-all that many seem to profess, why would H-D not specify a higher tension spring in production?  Wouldn't add any cost, and would help meet sound emissions rules.  Hmmmmmmm. :nixweiss:

Jerry
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Dan_Lockwood

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Re: Oil Pressure when riding?
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2008, 11:51:39 PM »

Capo,

Don't let my little comment worry you, installing a Baisley spring is highly unlikely to increase pressure and flow to the point of causing any damage.  I just throw that comment out for that group of people who really do believe if a little bit is good, a whole lot must be better.  Trust me, they are out there.  Assuming the learned folks on this site know better than to fire up a cold engine and immediately ride off at high rpm, a 15 psi increase in bypass valve setting isn't going to cause seal failures and leaks.

One area with a Harley that I would be concerned about is oil carryover or blow-by, due to the marginal design of the breather system.  If someone already has problems with excessive oil in the air cleaner, jacking up the oil pressure and flow is only going to make it worse.  The oil system is designed as a whole, with the oil passages, drain back passages, and air/oil separators sized to work with a particular viscosity of oil at a particular flow rate.  As is true of most engineered products, changing just one of the many variables seldom results in a total win/win.  If a simple change to the stock spring tension was the cure-all that many seem to profess, why would H-D not specify a higher tension spring in production?  Wouldn't add any cost, and would help meet sound emissions rules.  Hmmmmmmm. :nixweiss:

Jerry

Don't mean to start a major debate, but I have some questions.

Over the years I've been dealing with motors, going back to VW buggies, streetrods etc.  I know that you can raise the upper limit to which an oil pump will produce more and more pressure; the spring is a quick way to do this.  But oil pressure is limited to the rpms the pump is turning.  So in theory the stiffer spring would have no affect on idle or cruising pressure, just WOT pressure.  Oil pumps are a positive displacement pump and produce the same output volume per revolution of the pump; more revs, more oil until they hit their maximum pop off or bypass pressure.

Pressure is also relative.  It really depends on what your particular motor clearances are.  In a tight motor, tight clearances, if fed with a known quality pump, the pressure will be higher than the same pump in a worn out, or looser clearanced, motor.  Tighter has more resistance to being fed through the motor and looser spills oil out all over the place reducing the pressure required to move the oil through the motor.  Again I believe rpms is still going to be a factor in oil pressure.

The gearotor type pump that HD uses on the twin cams is more efficient than the older twin opposing gear type, but both types are still driven by rpms.

I just find it hard to understand the advantage of the heavier pressure spring if you're not at maximum rpms and at the upper limits of the oil pump.  If maximum pressure is designed to max out at 2,500 rpms, then probably the heavier spring pressure on the bypass ball will help produce more oil flow and more oil pressure.  If the oil pump is truly linear and doesn't max out until 5,000 rpms, the spring in my opinion is just a wasted effort and a few bucks gone.

Oil viscosity will play a big part in oil pressure as some have already mentioned.  I tried several different types of dino oil and synthetics in my blown 392 hemi in my streetrod and found Mobil 1 to be the best for pressure over all and oil temps.

I've had my 1,000 mile first service at the dealership and I had them use their Syn3 as originally installed.  I'll be changing out my own oil from now on and will be switching to Mobil 1 V-Twin oil.  Ever since my '08 SERK was new, now about 2,100 miles, it has had the slight ticking noise from 2,500 rpms to about 3,100 rpms.  This may be what some are calling sewing machine noises.  It doesn't matter what gear I'm in, just when the rpms are right it let's loose with the ticking; under load or coasting is no different.  Some have said theirs did this and after a bit it should quiet down, but mine is still ticking away.  I think more oil pressure would help, but without changing the volume the pump puts out at any given rpm, I'm stuck with what I have.  Maybe the switch to the other oil will help; don't know though.

Does any of the above make sense to you guys?

Thanks for listening to my ramblings.

 :) :) :)
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