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[Eqcons]

Yesterday, I decided to change my TMAT to a SERT, which of course requires changing the wide-band O2 sensors from the TMAT for the HD stock ones.  The rear pipe has to come off for that, of course. So, I loosend the O2 sensor a touch before taking the header off, and it moved easily.  Looked like an easy job lay ahead... WRONG!

Got the header off, and on trying to remove the O2 sensor, it got tight - VERY tight - right away.  Tight to loosen, tight to re-tighten..  So I applied lots of release fluid, thinking it must be carbon in the lower threads. Wrong again!  After an hour (!) I managed to get the sensor out.  Less the threads. Despite having gone in with anti-seize, the threads had just welded themselves to the threads of the bung.  One destroyed (and expensive!) O2 sensor.    Threads in the bung looked OK, but on trying to screw the OEM sensor in, it quickly became obvious that they were way too tight.  went to see a neighbour with lots of old bike bits and he had a couple of drain plugs the right thread, so we cut a couple of slots in one and tried it as a tap to clean out the threads in the bung.  No dice. Threads neatly removed from the drain plug too.    So began the search, on a Saturday afternoon, in a remote area of Scotland, for a tap the right thread for the bung.  Amazingly, I located one in a place that was - surprisingly - open on a Saturday afternoon, 30 miles away, so drove down and picked it up.  A mere $80 for it (!!!) - but hey, beggars can't be choosers..... Then my laptop wouldn't load the SERT map, and some research suggested my particular (cheap'n'nasty) USB to serial cable was likely to blame, so had to lug a whole big PC and monitor out to the back yard (!!!!). Finally got the whole thing back together at 9:30 last night (not bad for an hour's work, my Mrs said!). To cap it all, I've put some severely visible scratches in the chrome of one of the muffler end caps in the efforts to get the sensor out.

A fun day? I don't think so!

Jim

[ice6900]

i can sympathize with ur problem, sorry about the scratches!

[courter]

I've had trouble with anti-seize on parts that get hot -- I wonder if it acted like flux and solder and welded the sensor to the pipes?  I'm not a big anti-seize fan anymore because of the trouble it's made.

[Hoist!]

Weld a plug in em Jim. Screw them NB sensors. Ya don't need em anyway w/the SERT!

Hoist!

[springer-]

O2 sensors after just a couple miles can be a real bear to get out.  I am not sure about the never-seize on the O2's.  Sorry to hear about the pipe but glad you succeeded in your mission.

The USB converter that seems to work the best is a Belkin F5U109.  If the laptop has a PCMCIA card slot, I like to use a PCMCIA serial card that gives a true serial port to the laptop.  Either one can be had on eBay for $20-$30.  The early/original SERT doesn't like Vista much, XP is better.

[grc]

Speaking from automotive experience, many of the replacement O² sensors come with high temp anti-seize already on them.  The originals installed at the plants had special plating rather than a separate application of anti-seize, and it has seemed to work on the ones I've removed over the years.  I've had issues when trying to change them, but not due to the threads being seized up, just due to access (as in, "can't get there from here").  I've used some real Rube Goldberg looking combinations of tools just to be able to get to the suckers. 

It could be that the sensors Zippers uses don't have the anti-corrosion plating, or that the bungs were distorted from the original welding process.  Might be a good idea to just automatically chase the threads in new pipes before installing sensors, or anytime you change sensors.  As for the anti-seize compound, I've used it forever on spark plugs with no negative results.  There are many different types and grades of this stuff, look for the high temp versions.

Jerry

[Capo]

Yesterday, I decided to change my TMAT to a SERT, which of course requires changing the wide-band O2 sensors from the TMAT for the HD stock ones.  The rear pipe has to come off for that, of course. So, I loosend the O2 sensor a touch before taking the header off, and it moved easily.  Looked like an easy job lay ahead... WRONG!

Got the header off, and on trying to remove the O2 sensor, it got tight - VERY tight - right away.  Tight to loosen, tight to re-tighten..  So I applied lots of release fluid, thinking it must be carbon in the lower threads. Wrong again!  After an hour (!) I managed to get the sensor out.  Less the threads. Despite having gone in with anti-seize, the threads had just welded themselves to the threads of the bung.  One destroyed (and expensive!) O2 sensor.    Threads in the bung looked OK, but on trying to screw the OEM sensor in, it quickly became obvious that they were way too tight.  went to see a neighbour with lots of old bike bits and he had a couple of drain plugs the right thread, so we cut a couple of slots in one and tried it as a tap to clean out the threads in the bung.  No dice. Threads neatly removed from the drain plug too.    So began the search, on a Saturday afternoon, in a remote area of Scotland, for a tap the right thread for the bung.  Amazingly, I located one in a place that was - surprisingly - open on a Saturday afternoon, 30 miles away, so drove down and picked it up.  A mere $80 for it (!!!) - but hey, beggars can't be choosers..... Then my laptop wouldn't load the SERT map, and some research suggested my particular (cheap'n'nasty) USB to serial cable was likely to blame, so had to lug a whole big PC and monitor out to the back yard (!!!!). Finally got the whole thing back together at 9:30 last night (not bad for an hour's work, my Mrs said!). To cap it all, I've put some severely visible scratches in the chrome of one of the muffler end caps in the efforts to get the sensor out.

A fun day? I don't think so!

Jim

Jim sad to read your nightmare and appreciate the share in case!

Ride Safe! 

[BIGDOG]

I've had trouble with anti-seize on parts that get hot -- I wonder if it acted like flux and solder and welded the sensor to the pipes?  I'm not a big anti-seize fan anymore because of the trouble it's made.

Just happens that I have worked for both Fel-pro and Never-seez. Anti seize comes in several grades, copper base is good to 1800 f , nickle base is good to 2400 f , moly base is good to 700 f.
You need to try and stay with nickle base as it doesn't react to assorted metals . Copper base will create a galvanic reaction when your dealing with several deferant metals such as aluminum and steel , stainless steel .
An other thing you need to watch is over torque when using anti-seize , reduce dry torque numbers by about 25 percent or you run the risk of stripping threads.

[hunter]

Just happens that I have worked for both Fel-pro and Never-seez. Anti seize comes in several grades, copper base is good to 1800 f , nickle base is good to 2400 f , moly base is good to 700 f.
You need to try and stay with nickle base as it doesn't react to assorted metals . Copper base will create a galvanic reaction when your dealing with several deferant metals such as aluminum and steel , stainless steel .
An other thing you need to watch is over torque when using anti-seize , reduce dry torque numbers by about 25 percent or you run the risk of stripping threads.

Thanks for the heads up.  I'm concidering taking stock O2 sensors out and use Nightrider's LC1 kit (WB O2 sensors) with SERT.  I make sure use high temp stuff.

[Eqcons]

Thanks for the heads up.  I'm concidering taking stock O2 sensors out and use Nightrider's LC1 kit (WB O2 sensors) with SERT.  I make sure use high temp stuff.

Just looked at that kit.  $428 is one heck of a price!  These look like the same Bosch Wideband O2 sensors that Zippers ship with the Thundermax.  (They are OEM fitment on some VW Golfs and Jettas) and can be had for $59 each - and presumably the vendors still make a profit at that.  That means that it looks as if they are charging $310  for "HD wiring harness pigtails and fuse tap. "   Nice work if you can get it!!

Jim

[hunter]

That's what I thought first.  Then I saw that the stock O2 sensor out put is 0-1 volt and the wide band is 0-5 and if look at the video they also have a module (looks like a v-regulator) with the kit.  Still too expensive.  I have ordered the Bosch sensors (used by ThunderMax) from Amazon for $50 each (shipped), and I'm going to play with it a little bit to see if I can make it compatible with Delphi ECM.  I know they make good money at Nightrider,  They sell their IED $70 (discounted) and you can make it yourself for about $12 (They even show you how to make them).  I'll let you know when I have more information.

[BalDeagle]

Weld a plug in em Jim. Screw them NB sensors. Ya don't need em anyway w/the SERT!

Hoist!

yep to what the Monster said.

 

Nige

[Eqcons]

That's what I thought first.  Then I saw that the stock O2 sensor out put is 0-1 volt and the wide band is 0-5 and if look at the video they also have a module (looks like a v-regulator) with the kit.  Still too expensive.  I have ordered the Bosch sensors (used by ThunderMax) from Amazon for $50 each (shipped), and I'm going to play with it a little bit to see if I can make it compatible with Delphi ECM.  I know they make good money at Nightrider,  They sell their IED $70 (discounted) and you can make it yourself for about $12 (They even show you how to make them).  I'll let you know when I have more information.

Cool - looking forward to hearing how you get on!

Jim

[RedDevil]

Jim,
Sorry to hear about your trials and tribulations on the O² sensor removal.  Sucks about the scratches too.   Hopefully, everything will work out for you with the SERT and the NB sensors.  I've not had any issues with mine.  Fortunately, the tuner I had was very comfortable with the SERT.  My Street Glide will have the Super SERT.  I'm looking forward to playing with that.   

   

[hunter]

I just had an email from Steve Mullen at Nightrider regarding LC-1 kits (Wide Band O2 sensors) with SERt and here is his comment:

With SERT, you have the tool you need to do your tuning. While the LC-1's
can add a level of sophistication to the tuning, with just a Stage 1 type
engine, the LC-1's tend to be overkill.
 
The LC-1's can be programmed to any closed loop AFR that you want. I choose
13.5:1 because it is a good compromise between cooling the bike, gas mileage
and power.
 
Stephen Mullen