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[DAD]

I finished our trip back home with the problem reoccurring about 6 or 7 times.  Stopped at another Harley dealer and they said the engine is going to have to be torn down to determine what the problem was, so I continued on to home.  Took the bike to my local dealer and they are going to test drive it to see if they can recreate the symptoms and try to determine what the problem is.  I will post what they come up with.  So, in the meantime I'm without bike and I have many planned trips for the rest of the summer.  Hope the fix is not a long and drawn out process.   
Dennis

[grc]

I've noticed,as I have stated on this site,that the interference guide to bore fit,especially on the Mercury Marine castings,is only .001" to .0015" on most rpo heads from '05 and newer.
I just did a set of '08 110" heads( latest style),and was amazed at the position of the circlip.It serves no purpose what-so-ever.The guide interference fit was good at .002".
Ironiclly,I have only seen 3 guides that have moved in all the TC. heads that have come thru my doors.
John

I'm with you John.  When I saw what the geniuses at H-D came up with, I scratched my head until I lost my hair (that's my story and I'm stickin' to it).  While the clip may keep the guide from coming out completely, it can still move far enough to cause all kinds of problems.  I'd love for their engineers to explain the thought process behind this whole thing.

Jerry

attachment for those who haven't seen what we're talking about.

[Eqcons]

I'm with you John.  When I saw what the geniuses at H-D came up with, I scratched my head until I lost my hair (that's my story and I'm stickin' to it).  While the clip may keep the guide from coming out completely, it can still move far enough to cause all kinds of problems.  I'd love for their engineers to explain the thought process behind this whole thing.

Jerry

attachment for those who haven't seen what we're talking about.

<Jim sees phot and faints!> 

WTF is that all about?  That circlip is utterly useless - it can't do anything worthwhile at all, stuck away up there....  Methinks we may not have seen the last of dropped guides....

Jim

[ultrafxr]

I'm with you John.  When I saw what the geniuses at H-D came up with, I scratched my head until I lost my hair (that's my story and I'm stickin' to it).  While the clip may keep the guide from coming out completely, it can still move far enough to cause all kinds of problems.  I'd love for their engineers to explain the thought process behind this whole thing.

Jerry

attachment for those who haven't seen what we're talking about.

This shows it complete with the collar and seal.  Wouldn't this prevent the problems we've experienced?

[johnsachs]

Actually the whole point is being missed.EITHER THE INTERFERENCE FIT IS RIGHT OR NOT !
Clips,sleeves,and any other bandaid isn't going to prevent the head from being ruined,once the guide starts to move from a poor interference fit.Eventually it will start to move up as well as down,and wollow out the hole.I use a dial bore gauge on every guide hole,and haven't been comfortable with the factory fit from '06 and up on rpo heads.
At .002" to .0025" interference,a round non-tapered hole,you WILL NOT have an issue.
Freeze the guide,and heat the head.Any other method is a gamble.
John

[grc]

This shows it complete with the collar and seal.  Wouldn't this prevent the problems we've experienced?

It's hard to see on that photo, but there is still a large gap between the top of the spring seat and the clip.  As John noted, any movement between the guide and the head will create an eventual sloppy fit and abnormal wear.  The clip just keeps the guide from dropping completely and holding the valve off the seat.  This will help eliminate the sudden catastrophic failures, but won't eliminate the abnormal wear issues if the guide is moving in the head.  And Harley doesn't plan to supply oversize guides to fix wear issues, they indicate head replacement will be required.  From TT372: "There will not be over-sized replacement guides available. Heads with damaged or excessively worn guides will require replacement".  

Looks like another BS bandaid, sort of like new headgaskets to fix a moving cylinder liner or new specs to "fix" a wobbly crank.  

Jerry

[DAD]

Problem with engine finally resolved this last week!  My local dealer thought it was the Fuel Pak at first, but switched it out to a Power Commander IIIusb and had the same results.  Next step, they installed the "enhancement" to the engine and installed the super SERT and thought they had everything resolved.  I started on a 2100 mile trip last week and all the original issues came back.  Very discouraging!  This was after dealing with the issues for over 5000 miles and no resolve to the problem.  We were in Bowling Green KY when the problem occured again and stopped at the dealership there.  I explained all the issues I had been having to one of their mechanics and he immediately knew what the issue was.  He had previously ran into the same issue before.  He explained that there is an o ring which is not properly seated in the return oil flow which removes the oil from the case to the tank.  By this not sealing correctly it does not allow the oil pump to properly remove the oil from the engine and causes the engine to sump and causes all the problems I have had.  He said it would take about 4 to 5 hours to fix.  So we waited on our trip for this repair, and sure enough when he tore the engine down the o ring was not properly seated.  About 4 hours went by and the repair was completed and we continued on our trip.  Wow, what a difference the bike is now.  After the 2100 miles on this trip the bike ran perfectly.  I guess it's just a matter of finding the right mechanic who has seen the problem before.  This was the 7th dealer I had look at the bike and was the only one which even mentioned this was the problem.
Now I hope to have many enjoyable miles ahead.
Dennis

[DAD]

One additional note:  The mechanic checked the runout on the crank and it was less than .001 out.  He said he has been finding about 1 in 10 out over .010 so at least i'm okay with the crank.
Dennis

[ice6900]

well thats good news, well done to the mech, it just shows we need to shop around till we find a way to solve a problem

[sadunbar]

Problem with engine finally resolved this last week!  My local dealer thought it was the Fuel Pak at first, but switched it out to a Power Commander IIIusb and had the same results.  Next step, they installed the "enhancement" to the engine and installed the super SERT and thought they had everything resolved.  I started on a 2100 mile trip last week and all the original issues came back.  Very discouraging!  This was after dealing with the issues for over 5000 miles and no resolve to the problem.  We were in Bowling Green KY when the problem occured again and stopped at the dealership there.  I explained all the issues I had been having to one of their mechanics and he immediately knew what the issue was.  He had previously ran into the same issue before.  He explained that there is an o ring which is not properly seated in the return oil flow which removes the oil from the case to the tank.  By this not sealing correctly it does not allow the oil pump to properly remove the oil from the engine and causes the engine to sump and causes all the problems I have had.  He said it would take about 4 to 5 hours to fix.  So we waited on our trip for this repair, and sure enough when he tore the engine down the o ring was not properly seated.  About 4 hours went by and the repair was completed and we continued on our trip.  Wow, what a difference the bike is now.  After the 2100 miles on this trip the bike ran perfectly.  I guess it's just a matter of finding the right mechanic who has seen the problem before.  This was the 7th dealer I had look at the bike and was the only one which even mentioned this was the problem.
Now I hope to have many enjoyable miles ahead.
Dennis

Congratulations on finding the right guy with the right answer!   

Are you going to let your local dealer in on the fix - for the next poor guy like you that shows up with your symptoms?   

[DAD]

Congratulations on finding the right guy with the right answer!   

Are you going to let your local dealer in on the fix - for the next poor guy like you that shows up with your symptoms?   

You Bet!  I had them on the phone talking with each other while the mechanic was working on it.  The dealer in Bowling Green, KY is also owned by the same company which owns my local dealer in Louisville.
Dennis

[REGGAB]

Problem with engine finally resolved this last week!  My local dealer thought it was the Fuel Pak at first, but switched it out to a Power Commander IIIusb and had the same results.  Next step, they installed the "enhancement" to the engine and installed the super SERT and thought they had everything resolved.  I started on a 2100 mile trip last week and all the original issues came back.  Very discouraging!  This was after dealing with the issues for over 5000 miles and no resolve to the problem.  We were in Bowling Green KY when the problem occured again and stopped at the dealership there.  I explained all the issues I had been having to one of their mechanics and he immediately knew what the issue was.  He had previously ran into the same issue before.  He explained that there is an o ring which is not properly seated in the return oil flow which removes the oil from the case to the tank.  By this not sealing correctly it does not allow the oil pump to properly remove the oil from the engine and causes the engine to sump and causes all the problems I have had.  He said it would take about 4 to 5 hours to fix.  So we waited on our trip for this repair, and sure enough when he tore the engine down the o ring was not properly seated.  About 4 hours went by and the repair was completed and we continued on our trip.  Wow, what a difference the bike is now.  After the 2100 miles on this trip the bike ran perfectly.  I guess it's just a matter of finding the right mechanic who has seen the problem before.  This was the 7th dealer I had look at the bike and was the only one which even mentioned this was the problem.
Now I hope to have many enjoyable miles ahead.
Dennis

WOW!  That's quite an ordeal.  Good to hear the folks in Bowling Green were able to get you squared away and back on the road with a reliable machine.  Thanks for sharing.

[C-Rock]

Hi Dad

I am having the same problems with my 08 110 as you had regarding oil pressure falling off at highway speeds. Your symptoms mirror mine exactly. My bike has 8600 miles on it. My selling dealer has not had any experience with the solution to this issue. Can you post the dealer name and mechanic that solved your problem? I will then have my dealer mechanic talk to him.

C-Rock in California

[HD Street Performance]

Similar results John
I do see more stem clearance on the exhaust especially than I like even on low mile motors and that may account for the K-Line seals not being supple enough to conform to the movement and seal properly. They work OK in other HD motors, not my first choice however. I am using AV&V parts now and get a good tight fit on the guides both interference fit and stem clearance.
The motor is sumping, very likely
Pull the cam cover, cam plate, and inspect everything especially the oil pump. Get a dial indicator mounted on the motor and check the crank runout.
These steps will likely reveal the issue and proper fix.

[Highwaystar]

I had the same exact problem on the trip to Deadwood last September. Brand new 09 Ultra. "O"ring between the cases. Oil build up with all kinds of problems. Assembly f##k up....go figure.