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[sadunbar]

WOW! I didn't watch the tech, so I assumed that the Square O-rings were just another addition to the base gaskets; THANKS.  I'll be at the dealer first thing tomorrow.

I wonder why they just don't use both?  Stranger and stranger!

When I re-built my motor last yeat, I used the MOCO round base o rings and the Cometic base gasket.  And I used the Cometic cylinder head gaskets and the Cometic torquing procedure - which differs from the MOCO torquing procedure.  Worked great!   

[alejandro]

bad news first...

1. the rear bolt is seping oil
2. the starter keeps puking

(all this AFTER THE RECALL)

good news...

1. the economy will recover eventually 

do you some of you guys go about getting the moco to replace your engines (mine has been in the dealer no less than 4 times for oil leak issues) !!!!!!!!!

[Twolanerider]

When I re-built my motor last yeat, I used the MOCO round base o rings and the Cometic base gasket.  And I used the Cometic cylinder head gaskets and the Cometic torquing procedure - which differs from the MOCO torquing procedure.  Worked great!   

My Axtell parts came with the same instructions.  Cometic base gaskets and all the base o-rings.  I think the extra o-rings are why it must run so well.... 

[harleyguynv]

I have to say I watched the tech install the new parts and he did an excellent job. He was very carefull and through. The base o rings were green in color and had squared edges. The reason they replaced the pistons and cylinders is because I was getting a knocking sound (like the rods knocking in an automobile motor) between 2500-3300 rpm when the engine was at operating temperature. No knocking when cold.  The dealer had discussions with HD about this issue and they said it was caused by short pistons and the noise is considered normal, and it would not affect the longevity of the engine. I have a friend that has an 07 SERK that does not make this noise. So, when I took it in for the enhancement I asked them to warranty the cylinders and pistons. HD stand now is, they will only change the cylinders if the sleeves slip .006 period. My rear slipped .0045 and HD told the dealer they are now taking the stand that it must slip .006 or it is within spec. So, I called HD Cust. Service about this issue and made my case about the noise being excessive and my friend not having this noise. After allot of discussion they agreed to replace the pistons and cylinders with the understanding that they believe the sound will come back and I agree that it is normal. Also they said the only reason they are doing this is for customer satisfaction. I have to say I was impressed that they stepped up for me. Also the noise is gone for now and hopfully won't return. I am leary to have them tear it down again now so I am going to watch it to see if it gets worse. It is definitely leaking from the base not from a bolt.

I had the bike in 1500 miles before the enhancement came out because the heads and cylinders were both leaking. I also complained about the engine knocking sound. They replaced the gaskets, o rings and checked the cylinders, rocker boxes, and the tech said he did not see anything abnormal with the engine. They did not hone the cylinders or replace the rings. I noticed that the bike I was getting oil carry over into the air filter when I got it back. I went back to the dealer about the noise and oil carryover and talked to the service manager. He rode the bike when it was hot and did hear the noise and agreed that he did not think it was normal. He called HD about this and they told him they are aware of this noise between 2500-3000 rpm's and is caused by the short pistons. They said something like it is just an annoying sound but it is normal in the 110's and will not affect longevity.  On a side note when they do the enhancement package they are supposed to do a leakdown test per HD instructions. When they did my leakdown test it exceeded the spec so initially they did agree to replace just the rings. I broke my bike in per HD instructions and have no oil carryover at all now.

[Hoist!]

I have to say I watched the tech install the new parts and he did an excellent job. He was very carefull and through. The base o rings were green in color and had squared edges. The reason they replaced the pistons and cylinders is because I was getting a knocking sound (like the rods knocking in an automobile motor) between 2500-3300 rpm when the engine was at operating temperature. No knocking when cold.  The dealer had discussions with HD about this issue and they said it was caused by short pistons and the noise is considered normal, and it would not affect the longevity of the engine. I have a friend that has an 07 SERK that does not make this noise. So, when I took it in for the enhancement I asked them to warranty the cylinders and pistons. HD stand now is, they will only change the cylinders if the sleeves slip .006 period. My rear slipped .0045 and HD told the dealer they are now taking the stand that it must slip .006 or it is within spec. So, I called HD Cust. Service about this issue and made my case about the noise being excessive and my friend not having this noise. After allot of discussion they agreed to replace the pistons and cylinders with the understanding that they believe the sound will come back and I agree that it is normal. Also they said the only reason they are doing this is for customer satisfaction. I have to say I was impressed that they stepped up for me. Also the noise is gone for now and hopfully won't return. I am leary to have them tear it down again now so I am going to watch it to see if it gets worse. It is definitely leaking from the base not from a bolt.

I had the bike in 1500 miles before the enhancement came out because the heads and cylinders were both leaking. I also complained about the engine knocking sound. They replaced the gaskets, o rings and checked the cylinders, rocker boxes, and the tech said he did not see anything abnormal with the engine. They did not hone the cylinders or replace the rings. I noticed that the bike I was getting oil carry over into the air filter when I got it back. I went back to the dealer about the noise and oil carryover and talked to the service manager. He rode the bike when it was hot and did hear the noise and agreed that he did not think it was normal. He called HD about this and they told him they are aware of this noise between 2500-3000 rpm's and is caused by the short pistons. They said something like it is just an annoying sound but it is normal in the 110's and will not affect longevity.  On a side note when they do the enhancement package they are supposed to do a leakdown test per HD instructions. When they did my leakdown test it exceeded the spec so initially they did agree to replace just the rings. I broke my bike in per HD instructions and have no oil carryover at all now.

Try switching to 3 qts 20-50 and 1/2-2/3 qt of 60 wt. dino oil. Bet the seeping stops!

Hoist!

[harleyguynv]

Hoist you may be right. However, I have used synthetic for years in all of my bikes and never had any leaks at all. After thinking about this I decided it is not right to have a leaking motor. After all this is the third set of gaskets this bike has had and it always leaks in the same place at the base. So, I called HD Customer Service and they want to make it right. They think it could be the cases leaking. They want the dealer to add dye to the oil to see exactly where it is leaking. It's kind of funny because you can clearly see where it is leaking already. I am going in tomorrow to add the dye. I believe they will probably have to give me a new crate motor to make this right. It is too bad cuz this motor is quiet, has no oil carryover and only has 2000 miles on it. Heck the bike only has 8800 miles on it. It is just a hassle to keep going through this so often. If I didn't love the bike so much I would just give up and get rid of it.   

[Hoist!]

Hoist you may be right. However, I have used synthetic for years in all of my bikes and never had any leaks at all. After thinking about this I decided it is not right to have a leaking motor. After all this is the third set of gaskets this bike has had and it always leaks in the same place at the base. So, I called HD Customer Service and they want to make it right. They think it could be the cases leaking. They want the dealer to add dye to the oil to see exactly where it is leaking. It's kind of funny because you can clearly see where it is leaking already. I am going in tomorrow to add the dye. I believe they will probably have to give me a new crate motor to make this right. It is too bad cuz this motor is quiet, has no oil carryover and only has 2000 miles on it. Heck the bike only has 8800 miles on it. It is just a hassle to keep going through this so often. If I didn't love the bike so much I would just give up and get rid of it.   

Unfortunately your frustration mimics many with these bikes. Most want to believe the Mother Ship will make everythink OK and this will all be behind them. How can you possibly make such a fantastic motorcycle and put such a lousily designed engine in it? Charge top dollar, and treat the owners like idiots! Not have a support network to properly take care of the customers! Especially when most will gladly PAY what you ask. They just want to be treated fairly and have competent people work on their pride and joy. But most only know this path, and deal with the frustration. Until they can't anymore. I've maintained that they make GREAT bikes. For me anyway. But after that, you don't need em. They don't earn your business, trust, or support. So I stopped years ago! It's like beating your head against the wall. It feels good when you stop!!! I mean after all, this chit ain't rocket science! FTF and FTD!!!

Good luck with the outcome. I hope it's all positive for ya in the end!

Hoist!

[Gone Fishin']

My Axtell parts came with the same instructions.  Cometic base gaskets and all the base o-rings.  I think the extra o-rings are why it must run so well.... 

Isn't there a chance it runs so well, because it isn't a 110?

[Twolanerider]

Isn't there a chance it runs so well, because it isn't a 110?

Louis, it would be easy to make a smartass crack of some kind there.  But that would be unfair.  The 110 configuration can run well. Scott's and Howie's and others have proved that.  That combination of bore and stroke with an appropriate valve train profile can run well.  The damn 110s break not because they don't have the possibility of running well but because the damned Motor Company did a crappy job of vetting the design and assembly and used too many equally crappy parts in making that assembly.  No amount "enhancement" will ever change that base fact.  And that's too bad for many many riders.

[vagabond6542]

Louis, it would be easy to make a smartass crack of some kind there.  But that would be unfair.  The 110 configuration can run well. Scott's and Howie's and others have proved that.  That combination of bore and stroke with an appropriate valve train profile can run well.  The damn 110s break not because they don't have the possibility of running well but because the damned Motor Company did a crappy job of vetting the design and assembly and used too many equally crappy parts in making that assembly.  No amount "enhancement" will ever change that base fact.  And that's too bad for many many riders.

I think I can add my .02 cents to this. On the 110, if properly manufactured and broken in, it can function without hicups. My second engine on the 07 seuc is still running without leaks @ 6000 miles so far. Total is 13,300.

But, this is not the first time that I have heard that the 0905 program was hard to install. Grove's H-D in Winchester has great wrenches and they have had a fun time with the first install. Best I could get out of my sources were there were leaks and parts problems.

I hope that the problems get worked out before mine goes in.

[Midnight Rider]

Really, really hate to hear of these problems with the fix.  I would be frustrated, to say the least.  Seriously hope they get this resolved at some point in time, and can only hope the 09's don't have the same issues. 

[Gone Fishin']

Louis, it would be easy to make a smartass crack of some kind there.  But that would be unfair.  The 110 configuration can run well. Scott's and Howie's and others have proved that.  That combination of bore and stroke with an appropriate valve train profile can run well.  The damn 110s break not because they don't have the possibility of running well but because the damned Motor Company did a crappy job of vetting the design and assembly and used too many equally crappy parts in making that assembly.  No amount "enhancement" will ever change that base fact.  And that's too bad for many many riders.

Let's hope that the late '08 and '09 engines are trouble free. We see very few, if any, reports of failures there. I know it depends on mileage, but we can always hope. For the earlier engines it seems that, almost adding insult to injury, the installation of the campaign parts has been not so easy, probably not so well documented as necessary for the average dealer tech, causing repeated trouble for some owners.

Ride safely,
Louis

[bisounours]

Let's hope that the late '08 and '09 engines are trouble free. We see very few, if any, reports of failures there. I know it depends on mileage, but we can always hope.

Ride safely,
Louis

'08 are not trouble free but it'll be later than '07, more mileage.
'08 have some modifications ( TB diameter, for example) and it's an improvement but it solve not all.
More, the recalls solve not the slippage in the cylinders.
IMHO, I think the story is not finished....

Jacques

[JDOFLHRIDER]

My basegaskets had a leak after new cyl's and it stoped after 3,000 miles now I'm at 10,000 no leaks.I'm waiting till winter for the enhancement and gonna do cams too. Motorman said only 1 1/2 hour labor to install cams while apart.Still trying to decide witch cam. ride safe JDO

[harleyguynv]

Well here is the latest...HD Customer Service wanted the dealer to put some dye in the oil to see where it is leaking, so we did it. Now they are advising me to let the dealer tear it down to see if the cases are defective. If the cases are OK they want the dealer to put it back together using sealant, which I would guess is silicone. This will be the fourth set of gaskets this bike has had counting the factory gaskets. It has always leaked in the same area of the rear cylinder. I am worried about how long the sealant will last.  They tell me if the cases are bad they will either replace the cases or send a crate motor. They will look at the cost of each and than make a decision. I have talked to the dealer about when they tear it down, if they can remove the cylinders and leave the pistons in them. (remove wrist pins) They say they can no problem. This is very frustrating because finally my motor is quiet and has no oil carryover int the air filter, besides the fact that it is so inconvenient. They made it clear to me this time if my piston noise comes back they will consider it normal and do nothing about it. I was pretty happy with how they took care of me the last time it was in but now their tune has changed. This bike has around 8900 miles on it and has leaked since around 2500 miles. This just does not seem right. Any input would be appreciated.