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[sportygordy]

I say fire all of the big three's CEO's eliminate all the lavish corprate jets. That should allow enough to save what there asking for from the government. Not to mention they could save enough to start 3000 new jobs. Notice the Japanese don't pay out all the lavish cash?? They don't have CEO's they have front line managers that fly cabin coach on business trips, They are not having any problems. There are way too may 'selfish' spoiled brain farts destroying our American companies. I hope I'm not offending any of you that may be in this minority, but just speaking my two cents. Buy the way, my compnay recently announced possible cut backs in overhead next year. All managers including myself volunteered a 20% pay cuts and other perks (our take home cars)  to save some lost jobs, which very well could have been any of us. It looks like were good for next years budget, were crossing our fingers from here.  And I'm looking forward to putting a few extra miles on my Harley back and forth to work. 

[FLSTFI Dave]

  The gov't. injection of additional 'credit' for a society that's already extended to the max is kinda hard for me to understand how this is going to solve any problems except in the very short term.     spyder

I am with you on this statement. 

I thought over extended credit is some of what got us into this mess...

[screem]

I think MoCo will come out of this albeit with some bad bruising. It is the dealers that are going to suffer the worst, with many dissappearing.

If some of the Greedy dealers are falling on hard times...then boo hoo.....I dont remeber them caring about our financel well being very much....who here rembers when you went to Daytona for bike week and stopped by Robisons Harley Davidson for a tee shirt and some parts. The parts guy actually knew something about parts...the bikes were priced at MSRP...the owner was walking around greeting people...There used to be a dealer in Vermont  ( Barre HD)  that was located high atop a hill and the business was run out of the owners barn out behind his house. He also serviced HD golf carts..it was an absolutley beautiful setting up on that hill....the owner would come out to greet you, ask where you had ridden in from, he would sit out front on a chair and chat with you awhile. He had to secumb to the factory's wishes and had to build a store in the downtown area of town...just off the interstate...made the store many , many times larger than his original store was....something was surely lost with that move....but I'll bet all the yuppie bluetooth, GPS , Ipod ridding folks just love the new store.... Maybe some shake up will get the Factory and its dealers back to their core business....Motorcylces

[SBB]

but I'll bet all the yuppie bluetooth, GPS , Ipod ridding folks just love the new store....

Glad I'm to old to be a Yuppie.

 

[RedFXR2]

.... Maybe some shake up will get the Factory and its dealers back to their core business....Motorcylces

Actually, and I'll have to surf around to see if I can find a link, but I read somewhere just last week that HD's total revenue is more from the lecensing and sales of "Branded" merchandise than motorcycles.  Yes, they must keep making bikes to keep the brand alive, but those bikes aren't what makes the most money for the corporation.

[edit to add]

I'm still looking but here's some info from 2008.  Not sure where I saw that first thing but adding some figures from the following statement would indicate that the bikes are actually the revenue leaders over both P&A and Geveral Merchandise (motorclothes):


"Revenue from Harley-Davidson motorcycles was $1.12 billion, a decrease of $105.5 million or 8.6 percent versus the same period last year. Shipments of Harley-Davidson motorcycles totaled 81,206 units, a decrease of 11,642 units or 12.5 percent compared to last year's fourth quarter.

Revenue from Parts and Accessories (P&A), which consists of Genuine Motor Parts and Genuine Motor Accessories, totaled $165.2 million, a decrease of $14.0 million or 7.8 percent from the year-ago quarter. Revenue from General Merchandise, which consists of MotorClothes(R) apparel and collectibles, totaled $73.4 million, an increase of $2.8 million or 4.0 percent over the year-ago quarter."

[spydglide]

If some of the Greedy dealers are falling on hard times...then boo hoo.....I dont remeber them caring about our financel well being very much....who here rembers when you went to Daytona for bike week and stopped by Robisons Harley Davidson for a tee shirt and some parts. The parts guy actually knew something about parts...the bikes were priced at MSRP...the owner was walking around greeting people...

Well, a few of us still do remember the ones who were good to us thru the years.  I stopped by Robisons HD to pick up a T-shirt this at Biketoberfest a few weeks back.  Got to see ole Joe Robison and his wife and all the great ole bikes and stuff in there.  Only a couple of people there as the crowd was passing by to the new greedy dealers who could care less about you or your bike, only your $$$.     Kinda sad, really.  spyder

[RedFXR2]

Well, a few of us still do remember the ones who were good to us thru the years. 

Spyder, do you remember the original dealer in Roanoke Rapids (NC)?  They had a converted residential, brick ranch house on the outskirts of town (not the Interstate).  They had knocked the walls out for showroom and office space.  Still had the fireplace in the living room with chairs, lamps tables and carpet.  Magazines, a TV and free coffee.  They had built a cinder block garage structure on the side for service bays.  It was a really friendly, inviting place.  I think now that dealer has a more typical large structure on the Interstate exit.

[BLM777]

Actually, and I'll have to surf around to see if I can find a link, but I read somewhere just last week that HD's total revenue is more from the lecensing and sales of "Branded" merchandise than motorcycles.  Yes, they must keep making bikes to keep the brand alive, but those bikes aren't what makes the most money for the corporation.

Correct.  I reviewed the numbers likewise as well as stockholder reports pointing up the same gross revenue statistics.  Harley will continue to fare quite well, despite the downturn.  Some of the individual dealerships aren't even breaking a sweat over the recession/depression who have set up their marketing and retail show space to take advantage of the huge market in branded merchandise.  Many seem to fault the mother ship for expanding marketing, encouraging upscale retail operations that appeal to the general population as opposed to the "hard core" image, but those that have are weathering the storm with a broader base of income than the mom and pop holdouts and traditional low rent operations. 

Times are changing in the HD business model as I can think of one SCal dealer who exceeds gross motorcycle sales numbers with that of motorclothes targeting a market that has never swung a leg over a HD and several dealerships that I'm aware of that pay the monthly nut off of the same department.  Wanna see some big numbers, take a look at  the overseas motorclothes and memorabilia franchises that don't even stock a bike.

Hard for some to believe, but it's not about bikers hanging out on Saturday mornings looking for a free t-shirt.  Gotta hand it to corporate in many ways.  Marketing genius.

[spydglide]

Spyder, do you remember the original dealer in Roanoke Rapids (NC)?  They had a converted residential, brick ranch house on the outskirts of town (not the Interstate).  They had knocked the walls out for showroom and office space.  Still had the fireplace in the living room with chairs, lamps tables and carpet.  Magazines, a TV and free coffee.  They had built a cinder block garage structure on the side for service bays.  It was a really friendly, inviting place.  I think now that dealer has a more typical large structure on the Interstate exit.

Yep.  They've built the big box store now.....although last time I was there, they were still pretty customer oriented.  It's going to be interesting to watch which dealers do well during the next couple of years thru this 'downturn'.    spyder

[RedFXR2]

.... I read somewhere just last week that HD's total revenue is more from the licensing and sales of "Branded" merchandise than motorcycles.  

Correct.  I reviewed the numbers likewise as well as stockholder reports pointing up the same gross revenue statistics.  Harley will continue to fare quite well, despite the downturn.  Some of the individual dealerships aren't even breaking a sweat over the recession/depression who have set up their marketing and retail show space to take advantage of the huge market in branded merchandise.  Many seem to fault the mother ship for expanding marketing, encouraging upscale retail operations that appeal to the general population as opposed to the "hard core" image, but those that have are weathering the storm with a broader base of income than the mom and pop holdouts and traditional low rent operations. 

Times are changing in the HD business model as I can think of one SCal dealer who exceeds gross motorcycle sales numbers with that of motorclothes targeting a market that has never swung a leg over a HD and several dealerships that I'm aware of that pay the monthly nut off of the same department.  Wanna see some big numbers, take a look at  the overseas motorclothes and memorabilia franchises that don't even stock a bike.

Hard for some to believe, but it's not about bikers hanging out on Saturday mornings looking for a free t-shirt.  Gotta hand it to corporate in many ways.  Marketing genius.

Thanks for corroborating that--I still haven't found that article on the web.  You mention the overseas motorclothes memorabilia--that's another thing I remember from the article.  That HD makes a ton of money from licensing products that are never even seen in a HD showroom, even in Europe and cranking up in Asia as well.  Just selling permission to put the HD bar and shield on stuff makes them a lot of money.  No investment in capital equipment or floor space or inventory.  Just do the paperwork and collect the percentages.  As much as I sometimes gripe about their products, no doubt that HD has a brilliant marketing department.

[RedFXR2]

Yep.  They've built the big box store now.....although last time I was there, they were still pretty customer oriented.  It's going to be interesting to watch which dealers do well during the next couple of years thru this 'downturn'.    spyder

I think it's still the same family business (Collier's) so I would hope that they're just as friendly.  I just remember how neat I thought it was to pull up in front of a brick ranch house HD dealer outside of town on the state highway.  It was more like you were visiting friends or family than a business.

[screem]

Glad I'm to old to be a Yuppie.

 

Come on now we are all supposed to embrace the Motor  companys sheer genius of marketing others here are so proud of, Meet me at the big box dealership ...I i know i could find it if only I would buy a bluetooth Gps system that will store my ipod music and intergrate with my handsfree cell phone and web browser, When I finally get there I plan to use my HD Visa and purchase a pair of those nifty Harley jeans...you know the ones....the ones that say I am an individual.........No wait...it just occured to ....if I shop online from one of these big deal harley dealerships then i wont have to ride my bike down and chance getting it dirty....or god forbid...get caught in a rain storm...but if i did...I could pull out my offically liscenced product rain gear
     

[RedFXR2]

Hard for some to believe, but it's not about bikers hanging out on Saturday mornings looking for a free t-shirt.  Gotta hand it to corporate in many ways.  Marketing genius.

That HD makes a ton of money from licensing products that are never even seen in a HD showroom, even in Europe and cranking up in Asia as well.  Just selling permission to put the HD bar and shield on stuff makes them a lot of money.  No investment in capital equipment or floor space or inventory.  Just do the paperwork and collect the percentages.  As much as I sometimes gripe about their products, no doubt that HD has a brilliant marketing department.

Come on now we are all supposed to embrace the Motor  companys sheer genius of marketing others here are so proud of,      

Understand, I never said I was proud of it, or embraced it.  Or even agreed with it.  I'm just acknowledging it.

[hard10]

Come on now we are all supposed to embrace the Motor  companys sheer genius of marketing others here are so proud of, Meet me at the big box dealership ...I i know i could find it if only I would buy a bluetooth Gps system that will store my ipod music and intergrate with my handsfree cell phone and web browser, When I finally get there I plan to use my HD Visa and purchase a pair of those nifty Harley jeans...you know the ones....the ones that say I am an individual.........No wait...it just occured to ....if I shop online from one of these big deal harley dealerships then i wont have to ride my bike down and chance getting it dirty....or god forbid...get caught in a rain storm...but if i did...I could pull out my offically liscenced product rain gear
     

Screem, if you need some help setting it up let me know. I've done it a couple of times now. It's not as easy as you may think.

[screem]

Screem, if you need some help setting it up let me know. I've done it a couple of times now. It's not as easy as you may think.

  Thanx for the offer....but some cash in my pocket, a road map and a long weekend off and I'm good to go....I've always managed to get where I'm going and make it back home with out all the Hi-Tech goodies that seem so important too many these days...and oh yeah...I alaways leave my cell phone home too...instead I preform routine maintenance myslf on my bikes and carry a tool kit ....for those unexpected things that happen from time to time....and again, for over 35 years...I always make it home