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[HOGMIKE]

If this has been covered before, I apologize in advance, and could use a link to any thread previously posted.
When purchasing a Harley Hi-flow air cleaner (or variation thereof), the description recommends: "All EFI-equipped models require ECM calibration (priced separately).
Can anyone tell me exactly what this is?? Specifically, what is changed.
Thank you.

[eddfive]

Anytime airflow through the motor is changed the Fuel settings(AFR) are effected.  ECM Calibration can be as simple as a dealer flash from Digital Tech, Dealer flash from one of the Race Tuner CD's or the best way is to pick a tuning software of your choice and have the bike Dyno tuned.  Dyno tuning will adjust all the available parmeters in the ECU so the Fuel(AFR) is correct, the ignition cuvre is correct, and all supporting tables adjusted for optimum performance and rideability.  Closed Loop systems on the new Harley's will compensate some but not over the entire available area of the fuel map which means the bike will more than likely be leaner in the areas that are not closed loop. Factory ECM fuel settings are too lean to begin with for an air cooled motor. 

[HOGMIKE]

Anytime airflow through the motor is changed the Fuel settings(AFR) are effected.  ECM Calibration can be as simple as a dealer flash from Digital Tech, Dealer flash from one of the Race Tuner CD's or the best way is to pick a tuning software of your choice and have the bike Dyno tuned.  Dyno tuning will adjust all the available parmeters in the ECU so the Fuel(AFR) is correct, the ignition cuvre is correct, and all supporting tables adjusted for optimum performance and rideability.  Closed Loop systems on the new Harley's will compensate some but not over the entire available area of the fuel map which means the bike will more than likely be leaner in the areas that are not closed loop. Factory ECM fuel settings are too lean to begin with for an air cooled motor. 

I understand about the lean conditions with the stock settings in the ECM, my question is: does the "CALIBRATION" the dealer is providing change the a/f ratio? What exactly changes from before to after? What settings  are changed with the "CALIBRATION" or "reflash" the techs are providing? I guess what I'm looking for is a simple explanation of exactly what parameters are changed with the "ECM calibration". Is it a/f ratios? RPM limits? Spark curve? All the above?

[Unbalanced]

Hogmike,

My first presumption is that we are talking about a CVO here, if that is not the case disregard most of information from here on.

Harley no longer supplies flash upgrades for this type of change on a CVO, what it means is you will have to buy a tuning mechanism such as MasterTune, SuperSert, PowerCommander etc.   From there they take a base map and add fuel, timing and fiddle with stuff to get you out of the already lean condition the bike had from the factory.   Even if you didnt add the open breather (stage1) and pipes or slip ons it would still be recommended to throw some fuel at the motor.

Since you have added an open breather and slip ons you have taken an already lean motor and made it even leaner, not a good thing.   Recommend not riding it very far and getting it tuned with a SERT / etc.  Do not get sucked in by a dealer just wanting to put a map in your bike and not actually tuning it.   This process should take 5 or more hours to complete.

What gets changed, the Volumetric Efficiencies (VE) tables get changed, spark (timing gets changed) air fuel if in closed loop will probably get changed, deleanment or the fuel pump may get changed, fly by wire parameters may get changed if you have those etc etc.   The volumetric tables usually need to be corrected so that the proper fuel gets sent as to what is being requested by the ECM based on the loaded map.  Harley's timing tables are usually very very conservative and you can understand why some areas have 85 fuel some have 93 and a mix all over the countries, and then you have the ethanol in the fuels which makes them even more difficult to deal with.   

If all I did was muddy the waters more for you let me know and see what we can do to clear it up.

[grc]

I understand about the lean conditions with the stock settings in the ECM, my question is: does the "CALIBRATION" the dealer is providing change the a/f ratio? What exactly changes from before to after? What settings  are changed with the "CALIBRATION" or "reflash" the techs are providing? I guess what I'm looking for is a simple explanation of exactly what parameters are changed with the "ECM calibration". Is it a/f ratios? RPM limits? Spark curve? All the above?

In closed loop mode, where the emission laws apply and where 90% of all riding is performed, the street legal download will have the same 14.7:1 AFR, timing, etc. as the stock calibration.  The base fuel settings will be changed based on the increased air flow of the modifications, but the ECM and O² sensors will still maintain the legal (and lean) 14.7:1 AFR in closed loop mode.  Where the download will make a difference is in open loop operation, which is basically warm up, high rpm and/or large throttle opening, or when the system detects a fault and can't calculate a fuel correction based on the sensors (check engine light will illuminate).  

The downloads on previous years also bumped the RPM limit, for example from 5800 to 6200 rpm.  I don't know for a fact if that is still true on the 110's, but with stock cams it would be a waste of effort anyway.  You will find your best performance with stock cams comes with short shifting, not banging the rev limiter.

Jerry

[Hoist!]

In closed loop mode, where the emission laws apply and where 90% of all riding is performed, the street legal download will have the same 14.7:1 AFR, timing, etc. as the stock calibration.  The base fuel settings will be changed based on the increased air flow of the modifications, but the ECM and O² sensors will still maintain the legal (and lean) 14.7:1 AFR in closed loop mode.  Where the download will make a difference is in open loop operation, which is basically warm up, high rpm and/or large throttle opening, or when the system detects a fault and can't calculate a fuel correction based on the sensors (check engine light will illuminate).  

The downloads on previous years also bumped the RPM limit, for example from 5800 to 6200 rpm.  I don't know for a fact if that is still true on the 110's, but with stock cams it would be a waste of effort anyway.  You will find your best performance with stock cams comes with short shifting, not banging the rev limiter.

Jerry

With the SE 255's in a 110 on a touring bike, anything past 4500 is just wasting gas and making noise. These heavy bikes with these cams require you to be in a very small power band to keep max throttle control, between 3000 and 4500 all the time. Keep short shifting to stay in that range, and you'll always have gobs of power in your hand. But you gotta keep on shifting gang!

Hoist!

[miker]

This 09 tranny feels as if it has a shorter throw too...shift, shift, shift....

[Steve Cole]

Any time you change something that changes the airflow through the engine it may require tuning. If you have a closed loop bike the system will correct for small changes just fine. We have found that a simple Air Cleaner only change seems to work fine after you give it time to learn. Is it the best, NO but it does work fine and doesn't hurt anything. Now if you go more than just the Air Cleaner you will need the tuning changed.

[HOGMIKE]

Hogmike,

My first presumption is that we are talking about a CVO here, if that is not the case disregard most of information from here on.

Harley no longer supplies flash upgrades for this type of change on a CVO, what it means is you will have to buy a tuning mechanism such as MasterTune, SuperSert, PowerCommander etc.   From there they take a base map and add fuel, timing and fiddle with stuff to get you out of the already lean condition the bike had from the factory.   Even if you didnt add the open breather (stage1) and pipes or slip ons it would still be recommended to throw some fuel at the motor.

Since you have added an open breather and slip ons you have taken an already lean motor and made it even leaner, not a good thing.   Recommend not riding it very far and getting it tuned with a SERT / etc.  Do not get sucked in by a dealer just wanting to put a map in your bike and not actually tuning it.   This process should take 5 or more hours to complete.

What gets changed, the Volumetric Efficiencies (VE) tables get changed, spark (timing gets changed) air fuel if in closed loop will probably get changed, deleanment or the fuel pump may get changed, fly by wire parameters may get changed if you have those etc etc.   The volumetric tables usually need to be corrected so that the proper fuel gets sent as to what is being requested by the ECM based on the loaded map.  Harley's timing tables are usually very very conservative and you can understand why some areas have 85 fuel some have 93 and a mix all over the countries, and then you have the ethanol in the fuels which makes them even more difficult to deal with.   

If all I did was muddy the waters more for you let me know and see what we can do to clear it up.

Yep, probably confused me more than ever. LOL. I'm still looking at WHAT was changed, from what oem value to what. I understand that the lookup tables will have a value (like the FBW table), therefore something like a VE being "x" at certain conditions will now be "x+2" at those same conditions, AFTER the upgrade from the dealer, no? Am I missing something here, still trying to figure out exactly what the parts catalog means when they say: "All EFI-equipped models require ECM calibration (priced separately). Does that exclude the 110? or do they mean "all"

[HOGMIKE]

Any time you change something that changes the airflow through the engine it may require tuning. If you have a closed loop bike the system will correct for small changes just fine. We have found that a simple Air Cleaner only change seems to work fine after you give it time to learn. Is it the best, NO but it does work fine and doesn't hurt anything. Now if you go more than just the Air Cleaner you will need the tuning changed.

Are you saying the stock ECM will "learn" a change (such as more air flow) ?? One of my other bikes has a (what I call) variable ignition system, that will vary spark and curve depending on rider input and conditions. S&S IST. Works pretty good on my carb bike, but, not in the same league as an FI bike!

[HOGMIKE]

The more I learn, the more confused I become!!!
Good thing I can pick the brains of people here that know much more than I do, makes me look smart when talking to my bar buddies!!

[1abastarsmda]

All EFI-equipped models require ECM calibration (priced separately).

They print that with items like a stage I air cleaner to tell you that you are going to need to spend some money for a race tuner or other fuel management system, since on an EFI system, you need a way to change your settings.  If you had a carburetor, you would be changing your jets instead.

[Steve Cole]

Are you saying the stock ECM will "learn" a change (such as more air flow) ?? One of my other bikes has a (what I call) variable ignition system, that will vary spark and curve depending on rider input and conditions. S&S IST. Works pretty good on my carb bike, but, not in the same league as an FI bike!

Yes the ECM will learn for air flow changes but it only has a limited range that it can adjust for. A simple Air Cleaner change can be adjusted for within the ECM itself without issue. Will it get you max power output, No but it will be just fine to ride and do not damage. Now if you combine it with exhaust changes your going too far and will need to have it recalibrated for proper operation.

[HOGMIKE]

Yes the ECM will learn for air flow changes but it only has a limited range that it can adjust for. A simple Air Cleaner change can be adjusted for within the ECM itself without issue. Will it get you max power output, No but it will be just fine to ride and do not damage. Now if you combine it with exhaust changes your going too far and will need to have it recalibrated for proper operation.

Thanks for the response. I actually spent the last 3 hrs with a local dyno guy (using Master Tune), and he walked me through most all of what the stock system can do, or, is capable of doing verses what a good dyno and Mastertune can do. Found out that he does not use the O2, and relies on VE and AF readings to do the tune. Takes him about 8-10 hrs! Hmmmm....I guess it goes back to HP=$$, how fast do you want to go? If what I understand, the OE tune is limited to certain changes (eg: RPM limit, etc. ) and with a tuner, you have access to just about everything! He showed me the charts using sniffers in each cyl, at every 250 RPM and the A/F at that setting under a set load. Seems you can adjust to MAP and not really need the O2, right??
Am I getting closer to understanding the system?? I have to quit now and have a beer="brain burn" setting in!!

[miker]

That is how I tuned my last bike.  I did not have combustion analyzers so I went with map, ve and afr...It seemed to work pretty good.