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[HDDOCFL]

Just have 100 miles on my bone stock 09 SERG. I want to leave the stock A/C on and install the 2" Full Sac baffles and leave the cats for now. Do you all think it will need a tune done this way ? I plan on waiting for the NightRider plug and play to come out in Mar. and use it then remove the cats at that time. Or do you think I can get by without a tune installing the 2" Full Sac cores and  remove the  cats at the same time without a tune ?  Thanks Doc

[Admiral]

Everything I've read says they need tuning right out of the box.
Any mods to breather or exhaust will only make things worse.  They run too lean to meet EPA specs, changing anything will only make that worse.

Get the tune.

[gremlush]

You will be fine ,its still going to run 14.5 - 14.9  air-fuel. {around} put one of these on a dyno and you will see. good news is at wide open throttle  {WOT} they run {around} 13.6 - 13.8  not perfect ,but not bad. Dewey

[1abastarsmda]

You aren't doing anything different than if you were just adding some slipons.  My impression from everything I have seen is that you'll be okay, but you will be much happier when you change the air cleaner and get it tuned...especially since they are already running lean right from the factory.

[HDDOCFL]

Thanks for the replys. After checking with two local dealers I find that I will void my warrinty if I remove the cats. So on with the cores and hope this bike will not melt down. Dealer did state that I can put on any slip on I want and not void the warrinty. Doc

[GregKhougaz]

Hi Doc. 

          Congrats on the new SERG!     After talking with Steve Cole at fullsac and reading here, I installed the fullsacs and drilled the cat and rode for a couple of weeks before installing a Heavy Breather and SERT.  No problem.  As Steve told me, the O2 sensors in closed loop mode will compensate.  Ride easy though.  To see what guys have done to their SERG's with their results, you might want to read here:  http://www.cvoharley.com/smf/index.php?topic=27693.0

          Removing the cat is illegal, of course.  But to void a warranty, your modification must be the cause of the problem with the bike.  So, to say removal voids the warranty is too broad.  If you were to run the bike with out cat and other mods which caused the bike to run even leaner and the engine was thus damaged from excess heat, that would allow the MoCo to say the damage was not covered by warranty.  Enjoy the bike!

GK

[Texas 103]

Everything I've read says they need tuning right out of the box.
Any mods to breather or exhaust will only make things worse.  They run too lean to meet EPA specs, changing anything will only make that worse.

Get the tune.

 Kill The CAT>>>

[SPIDERMAN]

At it's most basic, an internal combustion engin is an air pump. Air (+fuel) in - -- Air (burnt fuel) out. When you change air in, obviously you need to change fuel in etc. When you simply change air out, there shouldn't be a need for a change. That's the equation at it's most basic. You can argue it 100 ways, but that's really all there is to it. IMHO, if I were adding a pair of slip-ons, I'd also swap out the stock paper air filter for a K&N one and leave it at that until I was ready to go WHOLE HOIST 

B B

[Highjagger]

So , as long as the aircleaner keeps stock there is no need of a tune , right ? 

[Hoist!]

So , as long as the aircleaner keeps stock there is no need of a tune , right ? 

I pretty much agree with Brian. But the intake isn't max'd out at all. The intake and exhaust are matched, along with the fuel, for an EPA approved setup. By changing only 1 of those components, you still have the ability to affect the other end. So if you put a freer flowing exhaust on, you'll also be drawing more in thru the intake automatically. In closed loop mode, the ECM MIGHT make up for it and put it back where it's designed (too lean anyway). But in open loop, there's no way it'll be setup right.

Hoist!

[skreminegul07]

I pretty much agree with Brian. But the intake isn't max'd out at all. The intake and exhaust are matched, along with the fuel, for an EPA approved setup. By changing only 1 of those components, you still have the ability to affect the other end. So if you put a freer flowing exhaust on, you'll also be drawing more in thru the intake automatically. In closed loop mode, the ECM MIGHT make up for it and put it back where it's designed (too lean anyway). But in open loop, there's no way it'll be setup right.

Hoist!

The ECM can adjust it somewhat, but it will try to maintain staus quo which is as you said, too lean and ultimately causing premature wear and tear on the motor and discomfort to the rider. The goal is to make it richer, not maintain leanness.

[Fullsac Performance]

You will be fine ,its still going to run 14.5 - 14.9  air-fuel. {around} put one of these on a dyno and you will see. good news is at wide open throttle  {WOT} they run {around} 13.6 - 13.8  not perfect ,but not bad. Dewey

Here's the correct answer.

SG

[Hoist!]

Here's the correct answer.

SG

That's OK Steve if ya consider 14.9 OK! A bone stock bike should be tuned, never mind one that breathes IMO!

Hoist!

[partycrasher]

14.9 AF is not a ratio i want to run for a long period of time. pipe change to a more free flowing set-up should be accompanied by a tune. Why spend that much money on a bike to let the engine run that lean. be smart. protect your investment.

[Hoist!]

14.9 AF is not a ratio i want to run for a long period of time. pipe change to a more free flowing set-up should be accompanied by a tune. Why spend that much money on a bike to let the engine run that lean. be smart. protect your investment.

Even better said yet!!! Not a ratio I wanna run at all!

I'm on the same page as you pc!

Hoist!