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[1abastarsmda]

It's about time you wake up Larry.  It's almost 5 am.  I was wondering the same thing you asked.  From what I have heard about the new chapter I joined, they get 100+ riders pretty regularly, and they split up into groups approximating 30 bikes.

[LarryB]

ya, the only time there are 9 bikes in a group is when thats all that showed up.

[Gone Fishin']

One thing that I haven't found to be the case in my original chapter is going to slow.  In fact, if anything, the group sometimes rides too fast.  When you have a group riding close together, with 20 to 30 bikes, I'm not exactly thrilled to be riding back roads at 70 to 80 mph.  I try to stay at the back of the pack and lag a bit. 
(...)

I am sure you are aware that the actual speed in a group is significantly slower at the front. If you are going 70 mph at the back, with 20 to 30 bikes, the road captain leading the pack is probably going around 50 mph. Try to file in at the very front, and you should have a smooth ride.

Ride safely,
Louis

[1abastarsmda]

I am sure you are aware that the actual speed in a group is significantly slower at the front. If you are going 70 mph at the back, with 20 to 30 bikes, the road captain leading the pack is probably going around 50 mph. Try to file in at the very front, and you should have a smooth ride.

Ride safely,
Louis

Huh?  If I am riding at a constant speed of 70 mph at the back and occasionally have to get on it to tighten back up to the group, how in tarnation could the lead be going 50 mph.  Something is missing in your theory.  If 70 is my low end, no way the group ahead of me is going slower than me.

[LarryB]

hes from Germany, its all backwards there.

[iski]

Ultrafxr, now what chapter are you in that they limit to 7-9 bikes in a group, never seen that happen.

Most Road Captain training recommends no more than 7-9 bikes per riding group.  HOG does and so do other organizations.  Lots of reasons for this. 

[ultrafxr]

Ultrafxr, now what chapter are you in that they limit to 7-9 bikes in a group, never seen that happen.

Hi Larry.  It is the Memphis Chapter.  This has been an evolutionary process starting back in 2003 or thereabouts.  As we've recruited and trained more road captains this is how we have evolved.

[LarryB]

Thats very cool, I have partied with several of your members at POT in B'ghm

[ultrafxr]

It's about time you wake up Larry.  It's almost 5 am.  I was wondering the same thing you asked.  From what I have heard about the new chapter I joined, they get 100+ riders pretty regularly, and they split up into groups approximating 30 bikes.

30 bikes in simply unmanageable and a disaster waiting to happen imo.  Even with great communication between the lead and the sweep riders there is no way to successfully navigate such a large group through traffic without getting split up.  Been there, done that and have seen what happens.  Natural tendency is to speed up to stay with the group.  Then you get folks pushing the envelope on yellow lights and going through on red, emergency braking when they realize they are catching up too quickly and this can cause rear-enders.  Just works much, much better to break down into smaller more manageable groups.  Heck you'll all get to the destination within a very few minutes of each other most of the time.

[Gone Fishin']

Huh?  If I am riding at a constant speed of 70 mph at the back and occasionally have to get on it to tighten back up to the group, how in tarnation could the lead be going 50 mph.  Something is missing in your theory.  If 70 is my low end, no way the group ahead of me is going slower than me.

I beg to differ. This is a well documented fact any Road Captain can confirm. The speed at the end of the group is the fastest. You can do any amount of research on this, and will always get the same results.

Accordion effect
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In non-linear physics, the accordion effect occurs when fluctuations in the motion of a travelling body causes disruptions in the flow of elements following it. This can happen in road traffic, foot marching, bicycle racing, and, in general, to processes in a pipeline. This effect generally decreases the throughput of the system in which it occurs.
The accordion effect is know by various aliases such as the 'slinky effect', and the string instability.

Ride safely,
Louis

[Gone Fishin']

hes from Germany, its all backwards there.

Take a look at reply 69 and review your comment.

[ultrafxr]

I beg to differ. This is a well documented fact any Road Captain can confirm. The speed at the end of the group is the fastest. You can do any amount of research on this, and will always get the same results.

Accordion effect
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In non-linear physics, the accordion effect occurs when fluctuations in the motion of a travelling body causes disruptions in the flow of elements following it. This can happen in road traffic, foot marching, bicycle racing, and, in general, to processes in a pipeline. This effect generally decreases the throughput of the system in which it occurs.
The accordion effect is know by various aliases such as the 'slinky effect', and the string instability.

Ride safely,
Louis

I agree Louis.  The most glaring example of this phenomenon I can recall was about 15 years ago when I was returning from Valdosta, GA, back to Memphis (in my cage).  There had been significant flooding all through the area and people were evacuating.  Traffic came to an absolute standstill - for several hours, no kidding.  Then all of a sudden it was like the heavens opened and we started moving.  For several miles I traveled at 60+ mph and then suddenly we came to a screeching halt and stayed unmoving for a long, long while.  This scenario repeated itself many times over throughout the night.  Think of it this way.  When you are in line at a red light does everyone move in unison when the light turns green?  No.  It takes a short for you to move - until the person in front of you moves so you can establish your following distance.  Multiply this 30 times or 100 times and you get the idea.

[BLM777]

I beg to differ. This is a well documented fact any Road Captain can confirm. The speed at the end of the group is the fastest. You can do any amount of research on this, and will always get the same results.

Accordion effect
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In non-linear physics, the accordion effect occurs when fluctuations in the motion of a travelling body causes disruptions in the flow of elements following it. This can happen in road traffic, foot marching, bicycle racing, and, in general, to processes in a pipeline. This effect generally decreases the throughput of the system in which it occurs.
The accordion effect is know by various aliases such as the 'slinky effect', and the string instability.

Ride safely,
Louis

Excellent point Louis and 100% correct.  As another example, in Nascar it is a known fact that the 40th position driver needs a maintained speed nearly 12% faster than the lead car to gain 150 ft on the lead car per lap on a 1 mile oval.

[ultrafxr]

It is vital that the lead bike in a group understand the accordion / rubberband / slingshot effect, whatever you want to call it.  If the lead starts out and accelerates rapidly it will have a significant effect on those following trying to stay up with the group.  They will have to accelerate and attain a much faster speed to catch up and this leads to all sorts of unpleasant consequences. 

Anyone who does not understand and respect this has no business leading a group imo.

[hdhog1]

Take a look at reply 69 and review your comment.

  Not that you need validation louis, but you are absolutely correct.  Anyone who has ever ridden in a large group should have expierienced this.
  If vision permits you can watch the leaders go while you sit and wait for the forward riders to move.
  A slingshot effect is exactly what happens as you are forced to go like a bat outta hell to catch up then slam on the brakes to stop.

  I sure hope many of the new riders find this topic.  Everybody always wants to ride in a big noisy group.  They should be aware that this can be a very dangerous place to be.  Notwithstanding the riding abilities of those around you.