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Author Topic: As The Saying Goes, Don't Do Business With Family!  (Read 2924 times)

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dlaws01

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Re: As The Saying Goes, Don't Do Business With Family!
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2009, 01:17:58 PM »

Hoist, sorry about the problem.  Not the property but the family discord with your brother.  It reminds me of the saying " no good deed goes unpunished "
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hogasm

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Re: As The Saying Goes, Don't Do Business With Family!
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2009, 01:20:52 PM »

Been there......done that......will call you
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Re: As The Saying Goes, Don't Do Business With Family!
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2009, 01:28:49 PM »

I can't add anything that hasn't already been said.  I hate crap like this!... especially when it involves family >:(

I have learned the hard way; I don't get into partnerships with anyone -- ever!  And, I don't hire family or friends... seldom ends well.
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Gone Fishin'

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Re: As The Saying Goes, Don't Do Business With Family!
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2009, 01:28:53 PM »

After all what's been said on this topic, I'll still chip in. We've a similar, probably not as hostile, situation in the family. From the maintenance you mentioned it seems a size of a unit (just guessing) which is probably easy to rent out. Let's say you take out a loan to cover the 1/3 you pay to brother #3. The income from the rent, plus the portion of the maintenance added to the rent (thus not be paid by you and brother #2) should, at current % rates, probably cover the entire loan (in terms of interest and a % on the principal as well). In fact you could end up with paying less, but owning 50% more (50% vs 33,3%). Of course you need to go through the realities of the actual numbers and market conditions. But at 2/3 vs. 1/3 it could work quite well. And all three brothers can live happily ever after.
Just my 2 cents.

Ride safely,
Louis
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Re: As The Saying Goes, Don't Do Business With Family!
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2009, 02:34:24 PM »

After all what's been said on this topic, I'll still chip in. We've a similar, probably not as hostile, situation in the family. From the maintenance you mentioned it seems a size of a unit (just guessing) which is probably easy to rent out. Let's say you take out a loan to cover the 1/3 you pay to brother #3. The income from the rent, plus the portion of the maintenance added to the rent (thus not be paid by you and brother #2) should, at current % rates, probably cover the entire loan (in terms of interest and a % on the principal as well). In fact you could end up with paying less, but owning 50% more (50% vs 33,3%). Of course you need to go through the realities of the actual numbers and market conditions. But at 2/3 vs. 1/3 it could work quite well. And all three brothers can live happily ever after.
Just my 2 cents.

Ride safely,
Louis

Thanks Lewis. Tried exactly that first. But we got "I don't want monthly payments from you guys. I want my money now!" You can't negotiate with unreasonable people that dig their heels in and won't listen to reason. Meeting the broker there on Sun. If we don't take a bad beating, I think we'll just try selling. ;)

Hoist! 8)
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Re: As The Saying Goes, Don't Do Business With Family!
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2009, 03:38:14 PM »

Thanks Lewis. Tried exactly that first. But we got "I don't want monthly payments from you guys. I want my money now!" You can't negotiate with unreasonable people that dig their heels in and won't listen to reason. Meeting the broker there on Sun. If we don't take a bad beating, I think we'll just try selling. ;)

Hoist! 8)
You've been missing my sentence
"Let's say you take out a loan to cover the 1/3 you pay to brother #3"

But never mind,
Louis
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Re: As The Saying Goes, Don't Do Business With Family!
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2009, 03:41:50 PM »

You've been missing my sentence
"Let's say you take out a loan to cover the 1/3 you pay to brother #3"

But never mind,
Louis

If we keep it for 2 more years, that appears to be our only solution to avoid a family war! Thanks again! :2vrolijk_21:

Hoist! 8)
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Re: As The Saying Goes, Don't Do Business With Family!
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2009, 04:41:17 PM »

Thanks Lewis. Tried exactly that first. But we got "I don't want monthly payments from you guys. I want my money now!" You can't negotiate with unreasonable people that dig their heels in and won't listen to reason. Meeting the broker there on Sun. If we don't take a bad beating, I think we'll just try selling. ;)

Hoist! 8)

I've been thinking about this this afternoon. Don't forget to take the tax consciences into consideration. I don't know what you paid for it on paper but I'm sure Bloomburg will want his fair share of capital gains.

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Re: As The Saying Goes, Don't Do Business With Family!
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2009, 04:41:57 PM »

well if the prices in that area didnt drop just sell it and get away with it.My 2 cents :drink:
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Re: As The Saying Goes, Don't Do Business With Family!
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2009, 05:14:31 PM »

I've been through this with my two siblings, on a vacation property.  The way that we worked it out, the one that did not want to continue with the other two gets to name a price.  The other two get to decide if they will buy him out at that price or let him buy them out at that price.  That way it works out the fairest for all concerned.  One party sets the price and the other decides which way to go. 

Taht way they can not name a lowball price if they want to buy you out, or name a high price if they want you to buy them out; just one price.   

Now your situation is a little different it seems, but it is going to be hard to set a fair current market price.  Especially with the way that the house market has been lately.  But that could possibly work to your advantage.
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Re: As The Saying Goes, Don't Do Business With Family!
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2009, 08:11:52 AM »

Since you have found that the market price for the coop hasn't dropped that much, why not try to come to an agreement with your brother to put it up for sale now, knowing that it may not sell at all, or it may take a while.  Also, include that you will rent it out to maximize everyone's income from the property while it is on the market.  Try to come up with a bottom line figure that is acceptable to sell it for amongst your brothers.  Don't clue in the realtor how low you are willing to go.  You want to make sure that you don't end up with another conflict when someone throws a lowball price out there and your brother wants to grab it.  If you approach him with the idea, and quickly get to the subject of price and ask him what he thinks should be the lowest offer they should consider, you can hope that he comes up with a high enough figure that's workable for everyone, and then you have it in your back pocket that it was his idea not to go below this certain price in the first place.  If his idea of a price is too low, then you need to market the coop to your brother in hopes of getting him to come up with another number on his own.

Luckily, when I went through this, I realized that my sister was more important to me than squeezing every last dime out of things.  I discussed the issues with her up front, and told her that I was going to try to handle almost everything and would not make a move on anything without letting her know what I was doing first.  She let me go on without argument with most things, and the few items that I sensed she had other ideas on, I simply conceded immediately and did what she wanted.  The only thing that I didn't handle this way was the house.  She wasn't ready to jump on selling it quickly and I told her that the housing market is going to take a big dump and we need to sell it now.  She is quite pleased that she listened to me now, since we got $1000 over our listing price, had a contract signed by the first person that looked at it the day it listed, closed in about 17 or 18 days, and the listing prices in the neighborhood started dropping significantly within the next few months.  I was also able to get pretty much top dollar for furniture that we had no use for by selling it to the people buying the home.  The furniture was just too nice for most homes in the area, and we both have fully furnished homes.  We would have ended up getting nothing out of it otherwise.  But the main point is that we came through it without an argument.

I realized how important this was.  My cousins (they're brothers) haven't spoken to each other in over 30 years.  One of them died last month, and the other one feels awful that they let settlement of their parents' estate come between them and he has finally realized what a big mistake it was after all these years.  I did not want the potential to be there for this to happen with my sister.

Anyway, good luck with the situation.  Maybe you can get your brother out for a drink alone some night and find some common ground.
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Re: As The Saying Goes, Don't Do Business With Family!
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2009, 12:12:33 PM »

Just a thought, but if the property was left to all three of you wouldn't that mean each person has 1/3 share your brother would be out voted on the disposal issue. An other thought would be to let him try to sell his 1/3rd share to someone else. I know law has very little to do with fair or right but eather of those ideas might fly. :nixweiss:
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Re: As The Saying Goes, Don't Do Business With Family!
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2009, 01:09:28 PM »

Howie
        I agree with the folks that have advised that you and the concurring sibling get together and beg/borrow/steal whatever it takes to buy out the third and nonagreeable sibling. I had to sign paperwork for my daughter's apt in NYC and I can't see how you could ever lose in that market.

     I should also thank you for reminding me that I need to firm up a gentleman's agreement between my brother and I on the disposition of some property belonging to my mother upon her passing. (hopefully many many years hence) He and I have different views on the subject and I suggested and he concurred with an arrangement mutually beneficial. Perhaps after reading this thread, I should get it in writing and have it notorized.

B  B
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Re: As The Saying Goes, Don't Do Business With Family!
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2009, 01:33:02 PM »

Thanks for all the ideas and thoughts on this gang! We met with the broker there and she seems to think that things are fairly steady at this complex. So we're gonna put a few bucks into and get some new kitchen cabinets and a new countertop, some new carpeting, and put it up for sale. This should make my other brother's "greedy" wife happy now, without knowing that this is still best for all of us! Good! She deserves the guilt!!! ;) :2vrolijk_21:

Hoist! 8)
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Re: As The Saying Goes, Don't Do Business With Family!
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2009, 05:03:38 PM »

  Hoist,

  This may be a done deal and I don't want to beat a dead horse.  Your choice will involve extra expence for all, with your sister in law possibly benefiting even more.
  I think the "Guilty" never suffer guilt as others do.
 
Another thought would be to let him try to sell his 1/3rd share to someone else. :nixweiss:
Big dog has a point here.
  You and brother 2 are out no additional $.  Brother 3 will suffer the fate of the market.  He can't be mad at either of you because it was his decision to sell.

  I would be devious and setup a shell company or broker to buy them out.  Then over a short period of time buy out the 3rd party.  Then fix the place up and rent it until market recovery, then sell if you must.  Just my 2 cents.  I am sure much of what we all have been saying has been foremost in your minds in recent days anyway.
   Good Luck
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