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[SBB]

Come on guys,  this is a new cam plate/ oil pump kit from hd.  And only for bikes with the older cams.  Cams are reused.  Even the service manager said so.  The only thing I have to buy is the kit. NO CAMS!
Screamin' Eagle® Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner Plate Upgrade Kit

This kit updates the cam chain tensioner of your early-model Twin Cam engine to the latest design, as featured on the Twin Cam 96 engine. The billet cam support plate has been designed to allow the installation of the late-model hydraulic cam chain tensionser to early Twin Cam-equipped models. These hydraulic cam chain tensioners will significantly outlast the spring loaded tensioners, and are an ideal addition to an engine modified for improved performance. In addition, '02-'06 models feature the late-model single row front cam chain and sprockets ('99 - '01 models use the existing front silent chain). The kit includes the improved late-model oil pump that increases flow by 8% and scavenging by 22% to enhance other performance upgrades.

 25284-08

IN-STORE PURCHASE ONLY Contact dealer for pricing and availability.

 
Fits '99-'05 Dyna® models, '99-06 Touring models, and '00-'06 Softail® models. Installation requires separate purchase of Spacer Kit P/N 25285-08.

Thank You Tally Classic!

             

[FUZZNUTS]

Come on guys,  this is a new cam plate/ oil pump kit from hd.  And only for bikes with the older cams.  Cams are reused.  Even the service manager said so.  The only thing I have to buy is the kit. NO CAMS!

Screamin' Eagle® Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner Plate Upgrade Kit

This kit updates the cam chain tensioner of your early-model Twin Cam engine to the latest design, as featured on the Twin Cam 96 engine. The billet cam support plate has been designed to allow the installation of the late-model hydraulic cam chain tensionser to early Twin Cam-equipped models. These hydraulic cam chain tensioners will significantly outlast the spring loaded tensioners, and are an ideal addition to an engine modified for improved performance. In addition, '02-'06 models feature the late-model single row front cam chain and sprockets ('99 - '01 models use the existing front silent chain). The kit includes the improved late-model oil pump that increases flow by 8% and scavenging by 22% to enhance other performance upgrades.

 25284-08

IN-STORE PURCHASE ONLY Contact dealer for pricing and availability.

 
Fits '99-'05 Dyna® models, '99-06 Touring models, and '00-'06 Softail® models. Installation requires separate purchase of Spacer Kit P/N 25285-08.

KEWL.............................back to the 600.00 then

[Hoist!]

Come on guys,  this is a new cam plate/ oil pump kit from hd.  And only for bikes with the older cams.  Cams are reused.  Even the service manager said so.  The only thing I have to buy is the kit. NO CAMS!

Screamin' Eagle® Hydraulic Cam Chain Tensioner Plate Upgrade Kit

This kit updates the cam chain tensioner of your early-model Twin Cam engine to the latest design, as featured on the Twin Cam 96 engine. The billet cam support plate has been designed to allow the installation of the late-model hydraulic cam chain tensionser to early Twin Cam-equipped models. These hydraulic cam chain tensioners will significantly outlast the spring loaded tensioners, and are an ideal addition to an engine modified for improved performance. In addition, '02-'06 models feature the late-model single row front cam chain and sprockets ('99 - '01 models use the existing front silent chain). The kit includes the improved late-model oil pump that increases flow by 8% and scavenging by 22% to enhance other performance upgrades.

 25284-08

IN-STORE PURCHASE ONLY Contact dealer for pricing and availability.

 
Fits '99-'05 Dyna® models, '99-06 Touring models, and '00-'06 Softail® models. Installation requires separate purchase of Spacer Kit P/N 25285-08.

This kit obviously is different than '06Dyna and up parts. The cams are not interchangable between the early and late models. This kit, if you can in fact reuse the earlier cams, must be made to do what you guys are looking for on earlier models. The standard '06Dyna and up camplate CAN NOT BE USED WITH EARLIER VERSION CAMS. This kit sounds like it's made to retrofit back and reuse the old cams. This is the first I'm seeing of this new kit and would like to get into it further. I'm not familiar with this kit at all. I reserve commenting further til I've researched it thoroughly. TC appears correct though on this as I read it.

Hoist!

[Twolanerider]

Come on guys,  this is a new cam plate/ oil pump kit from hd.  And only for bikes with the older cams.  Cams are reused.  Even the service manager said so.  The only thing I have to buy is the kit. NO CAMS!

Tally, the best answer is that none of us really know for sure yet.  I personally was assuming (based on nothing more than the rather incomplete description in the P&A section of the Harley website) that they had engineered a kit now that did allow reuse of the original cams.  But I know I don't know that for a fact.  And since the prior method of converting to the new tensioner system did change the cams I'm perfectly ready to believe that Harley just didn't mention everything else that might be required within their fitment description.  It's not as if that hasn't happened before.

As to using lifters and pushrods over again.  The lifters are rollers.  They won't care what they're rolling on.  The could be reused on either the original or a new set of cams.  Whether one does or not is completely up to them.  If the cams stay the same the pushrods could also of course.  That is if the labor trade off is acceptable to you.  The time saved in cutting them and replacing them with an adjustable set versus pulling the tank and rocker boxes to remove them may not be an equitable choice.

As for trusting the word of the service mananger who knows all this works; well.... this is the same service manager who you reported saying the cams didn't even have to come out of the motor.  So I'm not too concerned with his promises of what will or won't work.

Went to my local Harley dealer and asked for what the bottom line is on upgrading to this cam plate\oil pump\tensioners.  He said a grand.  That sounded high to me.  So I asked to make sure that included the lifters and pushrods.  He said they don't have to be replaced since the cams don't come out.

[naitram]

this is about the new kit just released. the kit i bought last year kept original cams and original style chain and tensioners

[Twolanerider]

I'm not familiar with this kit at all. I reserve commenting further til I've researched it thoroughly. TC appears correct though on this as I read it.

Hoist!

That's just it.  Nobody is Howie.  The fitment description doesn't mention cams.  At all.  In a logical world that would tell us they don't have to be purchased new to use the kit.  This is Harley P&A fitment descriptions though.  And we all know those are not always written in a logical world.

Until someone has the pieces in hand the first time I know I'm only assuming based on no known data.  And that I don't really know anything.  In fact the only thing I know for sure is that I'm doubtful of promises from a service manager who tells me the cams can stay in the motor.

[Hoist!]

this is about the new kit just released. the kit i bought last year kept original cams and original style chain and tensioners

Yep Neal, specifically talking about the new kit they just came out with. Or your other choice (besides gear drive) would have been the newer style hydraulic system, INCLUDING new cams.

Hoist!

[Twolanerider]

Yep Neal, specifically talking about the new kit they just came out with. Or your other choice (besides gear drive) would have been the newer style hydraulic system, INCLUDING new cams.

Hoist!

Or ripping it all out and putting in an Evo .

[Hoist!]

That's just it.  Nobody is Howie.  The fitment description doesn't mention cams.  At all.  In a logical world that would tell us they don't have to be purchased new to use the kit.  This is Harley P&A fitment descriptions though.  And we all know those are not always written in a logical world.

Until someone has the pieces in hand the first time I know I'm only assuming based on no known data.  And that I don't really know anything.  In fact the only thing I know for sure is that I'm doubtful of promises from a service manager who tells me the cams can stay in the motor.

Correct Don! The bore in the camplate is different for pre '06 Dynas and the current style. So the kit would need a plate bored for the older size cams with the newer hydraulic arrangement. If that's indeed what they did, it'll work with the older cams, but then again, not the newer ones. They could have been much clearer on this!

Hoist!

[Twolanerider]

Correct Don! The bore in the camplate is different for pre '06 Dynas and the current style. So the kit would need a plate bored for the older size cams with the newer hydraulic arrangement. If that's indeed what they did, it'll work with the older cams, but then again, not the newer ones. They could have been much clearer on this!

Hoist!

Precisely.  The holes are literally different sizes for the stock parts on the newer and older style.  That in no way implies that original centers couldn't be used and new bores made in a plate set up for the new tensioners.  And that looks like what they've done here.  We just don't know for sure yet.

[TallyClassic]

As for trusting the word of the service mananger who knows all this works; well.... this is the same service manager who you reported saying the cams didn't even have to come out of the motor.  So I'm not too concerned with his promises of what will or won't work.

Me either.  Not that I have ever replaced cams myself.  You guys are far more experienced than I am.  And probably one of those things that, 'once you do it once, it's a peice of cake'.  Or so the shop manual makes it sound.  But now 2Lane is making me think, $500 in shop labor.....5+ hours to do this job?  Didn't someone say this is like an hour to change a oil pump and camplate?  Maybe the HD shop proceedure is to pull the rods out the top end?

Sorry to get this thread pretty confusing....I began to think that maybe there were people who were not aware of the 2nd offering of camplates.  I'm sure in a couple of months someone will have this done and clear the whole thing up.

[SBB]

GUYS GUYS


Everyone wants to offer their ideas on a new product and don't have a clue so,

I learned from Don long time ago when someone was posting useless info that the easiest thing to do is to make a call and get accurate info.

So here it is,

all 7 pages,

take note on page 2 where it says,,,,,,,,,,"Inspect the cams and secondary cam chain for wear and replace as needed".

[SBB]

page 2

[SBB]

page 3

[Twolanerider]

As for trusting the word of the service mananger who knows all this works; well.... this is the same service manager who you reported saying the cams didn't even have to come out of the motor.  So I'm not too concerned with his promises of what will or won't work.

Me either.  Not that I have ever replaced cams myself.  You guys are far more experienced than I am.  And probably one of those things that, 'once you do it once, it's a peice of cake'.  Or so the shop manual makes it sound.  But now 2Lane is making me think, $500 in shop labor.....5+ hours to do this job?  Didn't someone say this is like an hour to change a oil pump and camplate?  Maybe the HD shop proceedure is to pull the rods out the top end?

Sorry to get this thread pretty confusing....I began to think that maybe there were people who were not aware of the 2nd offering of camplates.  I'm sure in a couple of months someone will have this done and clear the whole thing up.

Tally, it'd be more than just an hour job to change this.  Would have to pull the pipes and futz with pushrods in some fashion or other.  And I'd not be surprised to learn that a service manual and time guide built the job around opening up the top end and using pushrods over again.  In a labor versus parts comparison probably cheaper to not screw with it, cut 'em and just use adjustable.  Plus you'll gain the benefit of having pushrods that fit no matter what cam change you might ever decide to make later.

So the whole job isn't just an hour long task.  But it shouldn't be a $500 labor job either.  Halfway in between sounds about fair though.