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[grandpadoc]

Just curious as to why you think changing only the chain and going to gears is going to make a difference?

If it has a running problem now it will have a running problem later - unless they correct a mistake.
[/quote
It's been done before and it works. I don't see anything on this forum or others that supports a successful install or problem shoot for the hydraulic kit. My impression is the problem lies with the inner chain sprocket and the fact that it may not be correct for every installation. It did seem that the inner chain was a little looser and according to the wrench affected the timing. This variable is eliminated with gears. Doc

[porthole]

It's been done before and it works. I don't see anything on this forum or others that supports a successful install or problem shoot for the hydraulic kit. My impression is the problem lies with the inner chain sprocket and the fact that it may not be correct for every installation. It did seem that the inner chain was a little looser and according to the wrench affected the timing. This variable is eliminated with gears.

Other then to say I disagree I'm not going to argue.

But - you can put gears in wrong too. SO if the tech installed the chain drive wrong and has you convinced replacing it with gear drives will solve the problem then so be it.

In the end you bike will run correctly and it won't cost the tech anything to correct his mistake.

But I will pay close attention to the install of the chains in my bike to see if the new style causes an issue.

I am doing the SE plate conversion which uses a new style chain in the front and the old chain in the rear. We'll see.

Which "conversion" did you use?

[grandpadoc]

Which "conversion" did you use?

I'm not taking your point wrong, the kit is a new item and I guess its being field tested as we speak. I used the SE kit. The only thing I'm keeping will be the oil pump. The kit comes with a couple diffenent set ups for different models and I'm sure your bike will be ok. Maybe its the 95" that's the exception. Doc

[porthole]

I'm not taking your point wrong, the kit is a new item and I guess its being field tested as we speak. I used the SE kit. The only thing I'm keeping will be the oil pump. The kit comes with a couple different set ups for different models and I'm sure your bike will be ok. Maybe its the 95" that's the exception. Doc

There is more then 1 kit, two of the kits have SE billet plate cam plates and pump, with one of those having the hydraulic tensioners and a third conversion kit which uses all new style parts for an older bike, and require a new camshaft eg "conversion" cams. These cams are hybrids, the bearing journal on the crank side is old size, the outer journal is the newer large journal.

[spydglide]

There is more then 1 kit, two of the kits have SE billet plate cam plates and pump, with one of those having the hydraulic tensioners and a third conversion kit which uses all new style parts for an older bike, and require a new camshaft eg "conversion" cams. These cams are hybrids, the bearing journal on the crank side is old size, the outer journal is the newer large journal.

Which kit did you order Duane?  spyder

[porthole]

Which kit did you order Duane?  spyder

25284-08
http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/gma_product.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=845524448773018&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302319517&ASSORTMENT%3C%3East_id=2534374302319517&bmUID=1237051756249&bmLocale=en_US

89-01 models use the existing front and rear chains
02+ models use the existing rear chain and the new style roller chain in the front.

[spydglide]

Yep.  Don't confuse me at this point.  That's the kit I've got.......the only new 'kit' to convert our SEEG's to the hydrolic tensions w/ the better oil pump and billet cam plate.  I'm aware that the assorted SE parts (pump, billet plate, etc) were available separately, but this 'kit' is new enabling the use of existing cams.  correct?    spyder

[timo482]

i cant see how this kit would change the operating conditions of the bike unless its installed improperly

same cams, same timing, better pump, better tensioners

if the bike has the same cams and runs poorly after the installation - something - somehow is installed wrong

seems a waste to just toss it and put in gears - especially since with gears you do now have different cams and will have to retune

your mechanic is missing something important in this conversation - and its costing a bundle. if it was me id fire him.

to

[porthole]

Yep.  Don't confuse me at this point.  That's the kit I've got.......the only new 'kit' to convert our SEEG's to the hydraulic tensions w/ the better oil pump and billet cam plate.  I'm aware that the assorted SE parts (pump, billet plate, etc) were available separately, but this 'kit' is new enabling the use of existing cams.  correct?    spyder

The non SE cam plate conversion kit is a "kit" put together by vendors that have all the pieces we would need to install hydraulic tensioners. This is called a "Hybrid" kit and it requires "hybrid" or "Conversion" cams. The newer style OEM cast plate (with hydraulic tensioners) does not use bearings and as a result the cams have bigger bearing journals. So the conversion cams use the rear bearing like you have now and a larger front journal.

There are two SE plates, the original, that you would use with spring loaded tensioners or gear drives and the new plate, which you can re-use your original cam has the hydraulic tensioners.

The problem with the newest hydraulic SE plate kit is that you are limited to cam choices. There are a lot of cams out there but very few were designed specifically for our special 103 engines, namely Zippers and Yuill Bros. Yuill Bros does not make a chain drive version, Zippers does (the 575).

So to answer your specific question, yes it will utilize your existing cams.

Are you doing this yourself? If you are using your original cams you need another special tool to remove the cam bearing from the cam.

[spydglide]

The non SE cam plate conversion kit is a "kit" put together by vendors that have all the pieces we would need to install hydraulic tensioners. This is called a "Hybrid" kit and it requires "hybrid" or "Conversion" cams. The newer style OEM cast plate (with hydraulic tensioners) does not use bearings and as a result the cams have bigger bearing journals. So the conversion cams use the rear bearing like you have now and a larger front journal.

There are two SE plates, the original, that you would use with spring loaded tensioners or gear drives and the new plate, which you can re-use your original cam has the hydraulic tensioners.

The problem with the newest hydraulic SE plate kit is that you are limited to cam choices. There are a lot of cams out there but very few were designed specifically for our special 103 engines, namely Zippers and Yuill Bros. Yuill Bros does not make a chain drive version, Zippers does (the 575).

So to answer your specific question, yes it will utilize your existing cams.

Are you doing this yourself? If you are using your original cams you need another special tool to remove the cam bearing from the cam.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Duane.  That confirms what I was thinking and, no, I'm not planning on doing the conversion myself.  I don't know whether to stick with the stock cams or change to the 575.  You are changing cams, aren't you?  spyder

[porthole]

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Duane.  That confirms what I was thinking and, no, I'm not planning on doing the conversion myself.  I don't know whether to stick with the stock cams or change to the 575.  You are changing cams, aren't you?  spyder

Yes, my dealer had to order them direct from Zippers. Seems very few shops have accounts with zippers and the 575 chain drives are not listed in a Drag catalog, so..........................

$349 direct from zippers with free shipping. Through my dealer I got 10% off, but will pay shipping and a COD charge bringing it up to 347.
So I saved $3 and gave my dealer the business. Sometimes the parts guys go out of their way for me.

[spydglide]

Yes, my dealer had to order them direct from Zippers. Seems very few shops have accounts with zippers and the 575 chain drives are not listed in a Drag catalog, so..........................

$349 direct from zippers with free shipping. Through my dealer I got 10% off, but will pay shipping and a COD charge bringing it up to 347.
So I saved $3 and gave my dealer the business. Sometimes the parts guys go out of their way for me.

Is you motor still 'stock' and what are you expecting from the cam change?  spyder

[porthole]

Is you motor still 'stock' and what are you expecting from the cam change?  spyder

Air cleaner, pipes, (have D&D Fat cats 2 into 1 coming) and a race tuner. So yes, basically stock. The D&D's will be replacing my true dual V&H ovals.

Low to mid range torque, that is where the 575 cam shines, with a slight increase at he higher end. The pipes will also add to the low end torque, so I'm hoping for the daily double 

[hd-dude]

I have to chime in here on the power loss with the kit install. There is nothing in the kit or its function that would cause it UNLESS something is incorectly installed. It is very easy to get off a tooth on the chain drive. Another posibility that has not been mentioned here is the oil sumping. If the pump to case o-ring was not install properly the engine will wet sump and this will cause a severe power loss.

[porthole]

I have to chime in here on the power loss

Well Jim, hopefully, since you do this to support yourself and not as a hobby, he will take your advise and not be hoodwinked into thinking it is the kit and not the install.