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Author Topic: Crankshaft Bearing Upgrade  (Read 10604 times)

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Dave

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Re: Crankshaft Bearing Upgrade
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2005, 11:16:37 AM »

This looks like it could be a more effective fix than the venerable Timken bearing.  Now the output shaft is supported from both sides.  I'm going to order one of these today!  And here I was wondering what I could buy my bike for Christmas.
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John S

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Re: Crankshaft Bearing Upgrade
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2005, 10:21:31 AM »

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Re: Crankshaft Bearing Upgrade
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2005, 02:05:16 PM »

john,
this is a very good ad, it states very clearly that, bearing bore and the finished I.D. of the sleeve insert are machined to a tolerance of + or - 5 tenthousanths (.0005) of an inch. This is a very critical procedure that is performed by skilled machinists using precision CNC equipment. We are one of only a few shops currently offering this critical modification.

This along with two other main factors is why Harley went away from the old school Timken setup. The other two crucial factors are, heat and rpm's. the Timken's because they have to be preloaded are susceptible to thermal growth. its a fine line to get it setup correctly, when the engine is cold the preload is loose, but as the engine heats up the preload on the bearings increases as well. If you ever put an old style Timken wheel bearing on, you remember that you had to tighten them up and roll the wheel to seat the rollers, and then back off the nut so you had just a little play in the wheel. that was to allow for thermal growth of the bearings and subsequently the preload on these bearings. if you try to make the preload too tight when the bearings are cold, you will fry them when they heat up to operating conditions.  Even if you get the preload right for normal operating conditions, exceed the operating temps and you start getting too much preload again. its just not
a great setup for all operating conditions, there has to be a compromise somewhere. Next, the fact that there is more rollers in contact (as you stated above) is a good thing, but there are drawbacks to this as well. more contact = more heat and more drag. these bearings are very strong granted, but they have the most rolling drag of any bearing on the market, making them very inefficient and robbing you of ponies, and because of this they also have the lowest max rpm rating of any bearing style available. so for me the whole idea of switching to these bearing for a high performance application is like "Jumbo shrimp" an oxymoron to the highest degree. If I were building a high performance bike I would go to a belt driven open primary that can handle the torque. you guys want the best of both worlds a stock looking monster HP sleeper. as the saying goes you cant have your cake and eat it too. Harley made these changes to save money yes, but they are also trying to keep the technology moving forward, as production tolerances increase as well as engine rpm's there needed to be a bearing change to accommodate this, for all operating conditions. the Timken's just don't cut the mustard. The roller bearing can take the heat and the rpm's better and are not as susceptible to thermal growth, but I agree that they should have added the outboard support from day one. Whoever made this change was looking in the right direction, but didn't think through all of the forces involved or was trying to save HD money at our expense, and as one of our members so eloquently put it, someone at HD should be bent over a knee and SPANKED REPEATEDLY.
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John S

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Re: Crankshaft Bearing Upgrade
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2005, 08:35:08 PM »

I agree (did I say that?)  [smiley=confused5.gif]

I have to keep going back to what has worked for all these years and when it was decided to change I question why side loading wasn't looked at OR was ignored.  I think when it came down to making the call to switch, money was the priority instead of quality.  NEVER a call I would make in my company I can tell you that!  But then again, I don't have the market share of my business that Harley has of theirs!!!   [smiley=huepfenlol2.gif]
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d-rock

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Re: Crankshaft Bearing Upgrade
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2005, 10:31:26 AM »

Eagle1,

Nice lesson I think I learned somthing :-?? If I hadn't allready bought the bearing support I would now.

Thanks for the info
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AUSSIE_FLSTFSE

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Re: Crankshaft Bearing Upgrade
« Reply #50 on: January 16, 2006, 03:00:20 AM »

It does not look like the bearing support will fit my engine. Have a look!

Cheers
 [smiley=drink.gif]
« Last Edit: January 16, 2006, 01:44:25 PM by AUSSIE_FLSTFSE »
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Re: Crankshaft Bearing Upgrade
« Reply #51 on: January 16, 2006, 09:53:15 PM »

Quote
It does not look like the bearing support will fit my engine. Have a look!
Cheers
 [smiley=drink.gif]

AUSSIE, after i finally got both images (something really strange about that word doc?),the only thing i see is the casting web looks different and there seems to be a web post where the bracket would mount, am i seeing what you are seeing. did you buy the bearing or only looking into it since you had the cover off. maybe there is a difference between the inner primary housings between bikes on the 103, i wonder if anyone at gp designs can explain. or perhaps it would have to be modified by milling and tapping for the bracket?






« Last Edit: January 17, 2006, 12:35:36 AM by EAGLE1 »
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Fired00d

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Re: Crankshaft Bearing Upgrade
« Reply #52 on: January 16, 2006, 10:35:23 PM »

Quote

AUSSIE, after i finally got both images (something really strange about that word doc?),the only thing i see is the casting web looks different and there seems to be a web post where the bracket would mount, am i seeing what you are seeing. did you buy the bearing or only looking into it since you had the cover off. [highlight]maybe there is a difference between the inner primary housings between bikeson the 103, i wonder if anyone at gp designs can explain. [/highlight]or perhaps it would have to be modified by milling and tapping for the bracket?

Could the difference in these two pictures (inner primary housing) be the difference between the "A" and "B" motor?


UPDATE
Just checked the GP Designs Website, and this product isn't available for Softails and Dyna's at this time.

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« Last Edit: January 16, 2006, 10:42:13 PM by flhtcse2004 »
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Re: Crankshaft Bearing Upgrade
« Reply #53 on: January 16, 2006, 10:52:42 PM »

Just installed chromer inner primary and starter on the red bike a few days ago.  Guess should've taken a pic of the inside.  Never thought about it being necessary.  Bet D00d is right though; that it's a Softail thing.  Mine looked like it would accept this with no problem.
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Re: Crankshaft Bearing Upgrade
« Reply #54 on: January 17, 2006, 06:03:47 AM »

Softail inner primary case

Cheers
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spydglide

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Re: Crankshaft Bearing Upgrade
« Reply #55 on: January 17, 2006, 08:08:30 AM »

Quote
[highlight]Just installed chromer inner primary and starter on the red bike a few days ago[/highlight].  Guess should've taken a pic of the inside.  Never thought about it being necessary.  Bet D00d is right though; that it's a Softail thing.  Mine looked like it would accept this with no problem.
Bet that makes a big diff, huh?  ::) Was this the 'Red-Bike's' Christmas present(s)?  Guess we'll have to wait 'till Soggy Valley to get a visual????  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]  spyder
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Twolanerider

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Re: Crankshaft Bearing Upgrade
« Reply #56 on: January 17, 2006, 11:46:42 AM »

Quote
Bet that makes a big diff, huh?  ::) Was this the 'Red-Bike's' Christmas present(s)?  Guess we'll have to wait 'till Soggy Valley to get a visual????  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]  spyder

Especially with the true duals the starter is a big plus for the right side Spyder.  The primary on the left side really stands out too.  Fortunately it wasn't an expensive deal either.  Got the primary on eBay for $165 and the starter for $125.  Made it a much more do-able proposition.
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Re: Crankshaft Bearing Upgrade
« Reply #57 on: January 17, 2006, 04:59:56 PM »

Quote

and the starter for $125.  .
How'd you get the starter so cheap?  [smiley=nixweiss.gif] Is it 'used'?  I traded my stock one for a chrome one while the black one was brand new, and the exchange cost me that much or more.    :-/ spyder
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Re: Crankshaft Bearing Upgrade
« Reply #58 on: January 17, 2006, 05:02:35 PM »

Quote
How'd you get the starter so cheap?  

It was on Ebay and the guy listing it had misspelled starter.  So almost no one found the ad I guess.
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spydglide

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Re: Crankshaft Bearing Upgrade
« Reply #59 on: January 17, 2006, 05:16:58 PM »

Hey 2Lane, all I can say to that is: Merry Chistmas!  [smiley=cherry.gif]  Har!  [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] spyder
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