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[Twolanerider]

Again, why put the customer through that.

Rog, readily agree that standards practiced in the mid 80s are far different than those expected today.  You're one line quoted above though is my continued and seeminly perennial complaint with HD though.  That's what they just don't get.  They do it "right" sometimes.  But not nearly often enough.  The population of this board is testament to the difficulties that just should not happen.  Mrs. We's troubles, the hassles Porthole had with his engine and so many others (without even discussing all of you with the 06 paint issues).  

If you do bring those again I still don't see how one squares problem solving with what is obviously recurrent problem generation (CigarMike and others).  Then to add the cherry on top of the frustration Sunday the company still, to this day, does their best to hide from us.  Only making themselves really available when they see fit and are willing to be addressed.  But hey, we buy their products.....  So they're not the dumb ones.

[RJ749]

Rog, readily agree that standards practiced in the mid 80s   Only making themselves really available when they see fit and are willing to be addressed.  But hey, we buy their products.....  So they're not the dumb ones.

You have to put a lot of this on the entire organization.  I wonder what the difference is between a dealership that is new and the owners have gone through the "new" Harley dealer regimine.

They have upgraded facilities, new everything at many old dealerships.  It is hard to teach an old dog new tricks and if you have a bad or non-customer oriented dealer in a new building not numch will change, except the prices.

[Twolanerider]

You have to put a lot of this on the entire organization.  

Completely agree with you Rog.  It does seem to be a cultural issue there.

There will always be good dealership and representatives.  And there will always be poor ones.  The real definition comes from the large mass in the middle that takes their cue as to what they can and how much they can get away with from the parent entity.  Unforunately the parent entity isn't always a paragon in this case.

Granted, HD are wizards where the masses are concerned.  But we all know that it is much easier to entertain the masses and make them feel collectively loved a few times than it is to treat effectively with the large client base as individuals over and over and over again.

[SEULTRA]

Roger,
I'm happy for you man!!! I just got off the phone with Phil and he said since the defect in the brand new bag sent directly from Harley could not be seen when installed (the bleed through is on 3 places on the side of the bag that faces the tire), they will not be sending me another bag and I have to live with it.  [smiley=sauer005.gif] [smiley=sauer005.gif] [smiley=sauer005.gif] [smiley=sauer005.gif] [smiley=sauer005.gif] [smiley=sauer005.gif] [smiley=sauer005.gif] [smiley=sauer005.gif] [smiley=sauer005.gif] [smiley=sauer005.gif] [smiley=sauer005.gif] [smiley=sauer005.gif] [smiley=sauer005.gif] [smiley=sauer005.gif] [smiley=sauer005.gif] [smiley=sauer005.gif] [smiley=sauer005.gif]

Evidently, "Customer Care" and "Quality" are just buzz words at Harley-Davidson. "Good Enough" seems to be their new motto.
My new motto: No more purchases from Harley-Davidson

[RJ749]

Prior to the factory buying out the distributors in the late 80's with Porsche, I once received a letter from the distributor speaking for a very high line European sport car mfr.

In short the letter was addressing a huge run in the front lower valance, "If Mr. Leonard wishes to have a piece of art, he should acquire one.  At XXXXXXX we build automobiles."

Yikes, I was 26 and had sold the customer the most expensive vehicle I had ever sold.  I still have the letter and the customer never saw it.  

Simply can't imagine why the MoCo won't provide a product that matches on both sides.  I guess "commercially acceptable" is the order of the day and the think we'll live with it.  All we have left is to live by your new motto.

No more purchases from Harley-Davidson

[Twolanerider]

Davidson. "Good Enough" seems to be their new motto.
My new motto: No more purchases from Harley-Davidson

Simply can't imagine why the MoCo won't provide a product that matches on both sides.  I guess "commercially acceptable" is the order of the day and the think we'll live with it.  All we have left is to live by your new motto.

No more purchases from Harley-Davidson

I thank the Road Gods everytime I sneak a look inside this thread that I don't have one of the bikes with any of the bad problems.  No recurrent bad chrome from 04.  Far worse none of this paint from 06.  And no self-immolating engine from an 07.

To be told what SEUltra has been told is just untenable.  We laugh about putting on louder pipes to "solve" engine noises.   And of course this is not the same thing.  But it's really only a step removed.  A problem is a problem.  Whether one can see it in daily use is irrelevant.

Not buying the product again is actually alternative.  No matter how much one might bleed Harley orange.  I am lucky that I don't have this to contend with on my bike.  I know I would not have have exhibited that patience that many of you are.

The very idea was ritually dismissed quite some many pages ago.  But if I'd been mistreated and disprespected in the manner that was described here, or something like what Mike has gone through, or so many others with recurrent issues and excuses or placations for response I'd be off the company as if they were the odor rising from piles of feces (not an unfair metaphor by the way).

For anyone without this problem it must be a "there but for the grace of the Road Gods go I" warning. The only reason we're not getting dicked around similarly is because we don't have a bike with the problem; not because Harley wouldn't do it to us.  We should be just as worried as if it were happening to us.  Because collectively it is.  

Goldwings look better and better for a "next bike" every time the company behaves this way.  Harley may be a religion (to too many).  It may have an almost ritualistic significance to too much of our lives.  In other words, me may be consumers that have allowed ourselves to become too easy of marks.  HDI should have to earn our consumer dollars just like any other company.

[Midnight Rider]

I don't know, man...I think I'd have to do the Beemer LT before the GW, neither of which I could touch the ground easily on.

And I do thank the stars that I don't have the paint issues, but it was simply a matter of timing for me, and not intent...almost blind luck.  

The fact that they will not fix a problem which could be taken care of wholesale in a matter of a few weeks, just sucks.  The really, really sad thing is how many bikes are out there whose owners don't even know they've got a problem, but will find out later if/when they try to trade or sell.

[SEULTRA]

I don't know, man...[highlight]I think I'd have to do the Beemer LT before the GW,[/highlight] neither of which I could touch the ground easily on.

And I do thank the stars that I don't have the paint issues, but it was simply a matter of timing for me, and not intent...almost blind luck.  

The fact that they will not fix a problem which could be taken care of wholesale in a matter of a few weeks, just sucks.  The really, really sad thing is how many bikes are out there whose owners don't even know they've got a problem, but will find out later if/when they try to trade or sell.

Funny you should mention this... I was set to buy a new Beemer LT and my wife convinced me that I would never be happy with it because I've been so entrenched in the Harley culture and I had such a passion for the bikes. Strange (but not funny) how this is playing out now with the MOCO. Now I'm thinking ....... shoulda, woulda, coulda.

[RJ749]

This has made my decision on the front fairing with the little dry spot pretty easy to handle.  Just called the shop and told them to order the new one as they pointed it out to me and noticed it when they took it out of the box.

Also, I have not picked it up as it is not ready.

Screw 'em now, I would have possibly accepted it when they "worked" with it, but since I seem to have a position of strength on this, they can paint another one.

[SEULTRA]

Seems like the rule is if it is visible when installed it can possibly be covered under warranty. What a bunch of malarky.  
Go for it, make 'em paint another one... just be sure to inspect it really well before accepting it. If the MOCO won't make this right with my bag, I'm gonna post the picture of it all over the internet and give them some "free" advertising, letting the world (and potential buyers) know just what kind of "quality" the MOCO deems acceptable. Also gonna write Willie G and the rest of the head honchos with a included picture of the bag and ask them if they would want this on their bike. I expect it'll be strictly a theraputic venting exercise for me because I doubt they read their own mail. Talk about out of touch with the customers.... [smiley=zwtf.gif] [smiley=furious3.gif] [smiley=soapbox.gif]

[grc]

..................................I just got off the phone with Phil and he said [highlight]since the defect in the brand new bag sent directly from Harley could not be seen when installed (the bleed through is on 3 places on the side of the bag that faces the tire), they will not be sending me another bag and I have to live with it[/highlight]. ...........................................Evidently, "Customer Care" and "Quality" are just buzz words at Harley-Davidson. "Good Enough" seems to be their new motto.
My new motto: No more purchases from Harley-Davidson

SEULTRA,

That truly sucks, and just reinforces my feelings about how sorry the MoCo has gotten in the past few years.  They had to know the '06 paint jobs were screwed up from very early on, yet they played dumb, tried to BS people, etc., while still shipping defective bikes out the door.  It's pretty obvious from the amount of time that many folks have been waiting for parts that providing good parts to existing owners was a much lower priority than cranking out parts for the assembly line.  What happens if they develop a major issue with something like engines (don't tell them, but I think they've got one now on the 110's) - tell existing owners to cool their heels for a year while we prioritize the assembly line first?  I can assure you, between my own experiences with the SEEG and the issues I've been reading about here on the '06 and '07 models, I will think very long and hard before spending another nickel with the Harley-Davidson Motor Company.  

BTW - the idea of "commercial acceptability" on non-visible cosmetic items is not new.  That has been standard practice in most other industries for years, like autos and even home building.  But that is for something that is not normally removed.  A removable saddlebag would not fit that same category, in my humble opinion, since by definition it gets removed on a fairly regular basis.  If you were talking about the underside of the fuel tank, I could understand their response.  For a saddlebag, excuse me all to hell but they are full of chit!  

Jerry

[Bagger]

SEULTRA,

That truly sucks, and just reinforces my feelings about how sorry the MoCo has gotten in the past few years.  They had to know the '06 paint jobs were screwed up from very early on, yet they played dumb, tried to BS people, etc., while still shipping defective bikes out the door.  It's pretty obvious from the amount of time that many folks have been waiting for parts that providing good parts to existing owners was a much lower priority than cranking out parts for the assembly line.  What happens if they develop a major issue with something like engines (don't tell them, but I think they've got one now on the 110's) - tell existing owners to cool their heels for a year while we prioritize the assembly line first?  I can assure you, between my own experiences with the SEEG and the issues I've been reading about here on the '06 and '07 models, I will think very long and hard before spending another nickel with the Harley-Davidson Motor Company.  

BTW - the idea of "commercial acceptability" on [highlight]non-visible cosmetic items[/highlight] is not new.  That has been standard practice in most other industries for years, like autos and even home building.  But that is for something that is not normally removed.  A removable saddlebag would not fit that same category, in my humble opinion, since by definition it gets removed on a fairly regular basis.  If you were talking about the underside of the fuel tank, I could understand their response.  For a saddlebag, excuse me all to hell but they are full of chit!  

Jerry

Oh Lord............one more thing to look at.  My good saddlebag has stripes that look funky on the inboard side.  DAMMIT MAN!  I can smell this denial coming.

[cigarmike]

No more purchases from Harley-Davidson

I really like this motto, and have been a recovering MoCo stuff buyer since the F you answers started coming out of their mouths regarding less than standard quaility parts.

[RJ749]

Completely agree with you Rog.  It does seem to be a cultural issue there.
[highlight]There will always be good dealership and representatives[/highlight].  And there will always be poor ones.  The real definition comes from the large mass in the middle that takes their cue as to what they can and how much they can get away with from the parent entity.  Unforunately the parent entity isn't always a paragon in this case.
Granted, HD are wizards where the masses are concerned.  But we all know that it is much easier to entertain the masses and make them feel collectively loved a few times than it is to treat effectively with the large client base as individuals over and over and over again.

I've gone back to this quote for a reason that will be clear in a moment.

As you all know my tins came in and all looked great on the bike and in the shop.  They put a final coat of wax on the bike and were getting ready to call me as they have all my OCD stuff installed and the bike is ready to go.

The manager calls me and says, "I was going to call you and tell you the bike was ready .............but, I went to give the final OK and I don't know what happened but it looks like when they were painting the tank they dribbled some paint or some thinner and it shows through the clear and looks terrible."

"I have just gotten off the phone with my contact at HD and expressed my frustration with doing all this work and waiting months only to have to tell my customer we ordered more parts," he goes on.  "Roger, it is not acceptable, I have the bike together for you if you want to ride should the weather get better while we wait for the new tins."

So as discussed earlier here, I had him order the new fairing also.  It made me feel really good (after all the negatives we have had to say here about the MoCo and customer service) that my dealer really cares and is watching out for my best interest.

I'll wait in the line with Mike L and those that don't have tins yet/again and hope that these new ones come in great condition.

[SEULTRA]

I don't know what it's like to have a HD dealer that cares about whether or not I'm happy with my bike (other than the one that sold me my bike and they are not my local dealership). You should thank your lucky stars. My local dealership is just a parrot that repeats the company line and throws up their hands and talks about how their hands are tied because this is the MOCOs decision and they are just following MOCO guidance. Zero support on this issue. Maybe because I didn't buy the bike there?? I didn't because they wanted to gouge me $5000 over list for the privilege of buying the bike from them.
I'm pretty frustrated with this entire issue and am questioning whether it's worth elevating my blood pressure and stress level. I know Mike can relate.
NO MORE PURCHASES FROM HARLEY-DAVIDSON