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[grc]

There's a better question.  Worse, but better.  Instead of why is the MoCo putting up with it from suppliers the question should be why are they trying to release the product to us?  

It can not because they don't realize it.  Painfully obvious things such as this make that an impossibility.  

Only thing that makes any sense is that someone decided delays had gone on too long.  That same someone decided to push product out the door anyway.  Some will accept and bite their tongue (hard to believe, but true).  Others will accept and require something be done.  But at least those bikes are out the door, have been paid for, and have become a different kind of problem.  

Quite frankly you know Harley is getting a lot of free rework out of the supplier on this.  The entirely unacceptable feature is that they're willing to so callously, casually and without notice attempt to shift the problem on to us and make it an after purchase issue.  It's obviously more important to get paid for the bike than it is to deliver the bike properly ready to present.  That's not just sad, it's scary.

Copied directly from H-D's Cosmetic Requirements (see pdf file in earlier post): "Our cosmetic standards represent a common language and a set of shared expectations about what constitutes acceptable quality at Harley-Davidson today. [highlight]By acceptable quality, we mean the level of quality we feel represents a realistic balance between stakeholder’s expectations, the capabilities of Harley-Davidson’s and our suppliers manufacturing processes, and our need to produce motorcycles at a profit[/highlight]."

The unfortunate reality in American manufacturing (not just H-D) is that quality standards are not rigid standards.  The standard changes almost daily in many places, based upon how well the process is running that day and how many rejects are being created.  If the number of rejects is low enough to allow you to meet your production objective, then everything is OK.  If the number gets high enough to cause lost production, then the standard tends to be relaxed (under pressure from upper management).  This has been my pet peeve throughout my 30 years in manufacturing.  And we wonder why the Toyota's out there are kicking our butts.

Jerry

[BLM777]

Well stated Jerry.  Who would have thought that any of us would see both GM and Ford in trouble.  HD needs to take a deep breath and reflect upon the customer base that brought 'em to the dance.

[RedFXR2]

If the number of rejects is low enough to allow you to meet your production objective, then everything is OK.  If the number gets high enough to cause lost production, then the standard tends to be relaxed (under pressure from upper management).  This has been my pet peeve throughout my 30 years in manufacturing.  And we wonder why the Toyota's out there are kicking our butts.

Jerry

Hey Jerry, I worked in manufacturing for about twenty years, it sounds like we may have had a common employer somewhere along the way.

I would also add that it's  no mystery to me that Harley is pushing these to the customer.  None at all.  To HD, these are really nothing more than another piece of data.  They don't sit around and admire CVO bikes, they build them to be sold.  They want to build as many as possible and sell them for as much as possible as soon as possible.  We like to polish and admire the end product, but it's just business to them.  They've got a paint problem and they know it.  But they've run the numbers that tell them that most owners either won't notice or care, or be willing to somehow handle the problems on their own.  Therefore, it's in their best interest to go ahead and ship the bike, and let the dealers handle those that complain.  They figure that over the production run, they'll make more money that way than by halting the line until they really figure out the problem and correct it.

Like I've said before, nobody should accept delivery (and pay for it) of these things under the current circumstances, unless the paint quality is acceptable to them.  Counting on the dealers and the MoCo to correct it all after the fact, at great expense to them is very optimistic.

[spydglide]

Well stated Jerry.  Who would have thought that any of us would see both GM and Ford in trouble.  HD needs to take a deep breath and reflect upon the customer base that brought 'em to the dance.

You know, I'm just cynical enough to believe that any organization/company that's large and old enough is set in their ways and will not change dramatically.  I mean, give me an example of one that has successfully done it.  I can't remember one that really changed.....I've heard all my live of the ones that were gonna change, but seems like the changes are minor compared to what is needed.  Wish/hope I'm wrong.   [smiley=nervous.gif]spyder

[SEUC-OCD]

You guys are making me nervous.  I've been waiting impatiently for my Autumn Haze since September.  It was supposed to be here in December.  Now it's mid-January, because they're running about 30 days behind.  Is that because of "paint problems"?  Are all 3 colors having paint problems, or is it just the Black & Slate?  Oh, and thanks for giving me something else to worry about. --  JR  :-/  

Ramblin,

GC and I have been waiting since August, and he has been pushed back to January or February, and I have been pushed out until May or June (maybe even 07 models).  Hang in there.  This place is good therapy... in an odd sort of way.

So far, I have heard of issues with the crimson/slate and with the black/green.  I have not yet heard of any issues with the haze.  knock on wood.

/me

[jeffj]

 

MOCO is really dropping the ball on the quality issues with their vendor. Someone, somewhere has to sign off on the final quality inspection, perhaps they were hired under a special program for employing the blind or something ?  [smiley=nixweiss.gif]
If enough people sat down and wrote letters to H-D management (starting with the CEO on down) outlining the same issues with paint and area reps. I think something would eventually get done. Their names and addresses are in the annual report.
Otherwise, maybe a class action suit would get their attention ?

Here is the address to MoCo:

Harley-Davidson Inc
James L. Ziemer - CEO/President
c/o Secretary
3700 West Juneau Ave.
Milwaukee, WI 53208

Here is a pic of the CEO/President:

[RedFXR2]

Otherwise, maybe a class action suit would get their attention ?

Just a thought, but if a group of people is aware of the level of quality of a new manufactured product (bad paint), and chose to buy it anyway, then does this group qualify for legal class action against the manufacturer?  It would be very different if the problem surfaced later, as in being concealed by the manufacturer at the point of sale.  Is there a lawyer on the board?

[hd-dude]

I was at my local dealer today and they have a black and slate on the floor. I looked at the paint closely and noticed the exact same flaws that you posted pics of. The inner fairing and saddle bag lids look good, the outer and lowers look like sh*t. You can really see the difference in the pieces.  This is not a isolated issue, I think the MOCO has a big problem on there hands!

[gator]

Regarding the paint issues with the SE Ultra Black Crimson and slate. I am haveing the same problem everything "milky" except saddle beg lids. My dealer Bridgeport HD is going to be dealing with the paint issue. Those having paint issues could you please list the name of your dealer!!! If the dealers got together this issue may get resolved faster. We could give the dealer names to our area reps to show them that "THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE PAINT"

[grc]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but everyone needs to realize that the parts ordered for repair come from the same source as the originals.  If they are having as big a problem as it appears, replacement parts will be a long time coming.  H-D will prioritize parts to production first, service parts second.  Get something in writing stating they agree to replace the parts, then just enjoy the rest of the bike until they get this problem solved.

Jerry

[SE_ULTRA]

VAN NUYS HD, Van Nuys, California
they got 2 Black/Slates..........BOTH BAD

[hdfatboy]

Mine (Black & Slate) was delivered 10.22.05 - Not one issue. No chips, runs, sags, fish eye's, swirls. . .   Nothing. This issue must be something recent :-/.

[J.J.]

Looked ay my Black and Slate last night and sure as SH&%# same issue.  I have a call and email into my stealer wanting answers.  Has anyone gone back after delivery and paying for the bike?  I picked mine up at the dealer and it was never outside so I did not notice, bad excuse but then again we did spend some $$$ on these and should not have to put up with this.  Am I screwed?

[hd-dude]

Looked ay my Black and Slate last night and sure as SH&%# same issue.  I have a call and email into my stealer wanting answers.  Has anyone gone back after delivery and paying for the bike?  I picked mine up at the dealer and it was never outside so I did not notice, bad excuse but then again we did spend some $$$ on these and should not have to put up with this.  Am I screwed?

That sucks that you have the problems too! I had a hand print under the clear coat on the side of my front fender that I did not notice until I was waxing the bike a month after I picked it up. My dealer took care of the problem without any hassles. I would think that HD knows these bikes have a problem and hope they will be taking care of them. Hopefully your dealer will step up for you.

[GC_Super]

My dealer told me yesterday that they had stopped production on the Black/Slate bikes until they can cure the paint issues. So, yes, they know they have a problem.