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[BobD]

After posting my take on the black cherry crimson paint issue, I had a brain flash. [highlight]I wonder if a message of group support from this CVO owners group would help the MoCo assign focus and priority to this problem?[/highlight] Maybe our moderators could help us put something together.

[RJ749]

My lids are great and the bags are a bit off now that everyone is making me paranoid about it.

I was OK with them until I started walking around looking at it from every angle, in every light and adking all my buds to look.

Maybe I'll just ride it with dark shades all the time.

[cigarmike]

I hope your right EZ, I really do, and no, I haven't used the S word with Harley yet, I only know that I have seen lots of frustration by going back and reading posts way before I got here, and I also got blown off by my dealership, I did talk to the GM at the dealership yesterday, and am going back to see him Monday, back to square one. But the fact remains, HD is STILL talking about buffing as a solution, and they are as of right now, Still willing to Roll these bikes out of the dealerships to un-suspecting customers, which is BS.

 Im a get-er-done kind of guy, sitting and waiting will only make you sit and wait a lot longer, sometimes untill it is too late. Right Now, I have NO promises that I will be happy with any solution, untill I do, I will fight the good fight. But later today, I am going to go canyon running , its going to be near 80 degrees after so much rain here lately, and all this will go away for the day  

[seultrarider]

Hey Gator, Please post what happened the other day with your bike and the buffing my the "Harley Paint Expert"? Thanks

[06 Blk Crimson]

 [smiley=xyxthumbs.gif] well said gator, we need to stay after both the dealers and the motor company. twolanerider is right on with his statment  

[displacing air]

I will have to change my vote...gave mine a closer look and sure enough you ca see a
huge difference in the paint on the bag lid to the bags and inner to outer fairings. I cant believe
that in 1200 miles I didnt notice. Last time I cleaned it I did notice It wasnt as shiney as the
day I got it..

I have flouresent lights in my garage and at the dealer when I inspected it..you just cant tell in
that lighting...when its sunny I am riding and not looking at it.

Its like the bottom of the bags and the front of the fairing and front fender got milky on me.
I guess I will call the dealer on monday and join the others in a quest for getting them to
fix my paint.  I dont see any 36k cars rolling around with a milky hood and shiney front quarter panels on them...people wouldnt stand for it. I really like my dealer and think they will work with
me...if not I know some lawyers who would love to be involved with something like this.  There are to many people with the same problem...a lawyers dream come true...but I hope it doesnt
come to that. Time will tell.

[Twolanerider]

I will have to change my vote....

This isn't the first that has specifically had a problem that didn't show up immediately.  Would even further suggest that it's not something being "seen" through too much clearcoat (that was never a rational suggestion anyway) but is rather a materials or application error with a bad paint product or an application that isn't allowing the product appropriate time between color applications.  

You want to bet this doesn't end up being the MoCo getting in a hurry.  They see a multi-stage paint process that's going to take forever to get done and potentially not meet a production schedule.  So they prescribe a faster application process to meet production demands.  Then, voila, they create a monster because no matter how fast you want it to paint only works so fast.  Have to wonder just how soft that graying and milking (dieing) paint is that's sealed underneath the clearcoat.

[cigarmike]

Air, are you talking about the Black Crimson...or the bike in your pic??, Dont tell me that the green models have issues too?, Sorry to here which ever color your talking about.  

[displacing air]

No , I got the green...

The green is purty as can be...but the black emerald looks milky on the bottom of the bags,
the tank, the front of the fairing and fender. Maybe the guys who painted the inner fairing and the bag lids and spoilers just did too good a job...and made the rest look bad? I dont know but it would be nice if they all matched.

Funny thing is I had ordered some led spoilers for the bags and they had to be painted and took a while to come in. They look just as good as the lid for the bags...but the bottom has a milky look to them compared to the top.

And I updated the poll to show that I have the green and there has been a few others with
this problem also.

[spydglide]

This isn't the first that has specifically had a problem that didn't show up immediately.  Would even further suggest that it's not something being "seen" through too much clearcoat (that was never a rational suggestion anyway) but is rather a materials or application error with a bad paint product or [highlight]an application that isn't allowing the product appropriate time between color applications. [/highlight] 

You want to bet this doesn't end up being the MoCo getting in a hurry.  They see a multi-stage paint process that's going to take forever to get done and potentially not meet a production schedule.  So they prescribe a faster application process to meet production demands.  Then, voila, they create a monster because no matter how fast you want it to paint only works so fast. [highlight] Have to wonder just how soft that graying and milking (dieing) paint is that's sealed underneath the clearcoat.[/highlight]

2Lane, I would bet with you on this as being the problem.  I'm basing this on my limited experience spraying (it's been awhile) multi-clear coats over striping and art work on bikes.  If you start hurrying and cutting corners in the process, it will look milky as it doesn't have sufficient drying/hardening occur.  It will never get much better as it's 'sealed' that way.  I'm voting w/ you on this being the best scenario of what's caused the problem(s).  :-/ spyder

[gator]

I can't speak for others but just what I was told regarding my bike. It is the wrong base coat that was used and the clear was not applied properly. The paint "expert" did not touch the bike or even try to buff it, "buffing will not work". The problem and the long delay is 1- fix the problem how? 2- there is finger pointing going on Caliber says we painted to factory specs MOCo states caliber did not, Caliber states not our fault it's MOCO fault so on and so on. The true color is the inner fearing. The factory rep has all ready looked at 5 blk crimsons regarding bad paint. He states group like ours are a good thing but on the down side creates mass hysteria. There are pics being sent in that were taken from this site and (cut & paste) [smiley=oops.gif] making a claim that it's there bike. This is happening more and more. Out of the bikes he looked at one was OK no issue Why?? but owner insisted he has a problem because of reading the posts here. Some paints are worst then others why? finger pointing goes on not towards us but between Caliber & MOCO. More and more are complaining directly to the MOCO regarding bad paint and cutting out the dealer. All bikes are being looked and handled on a case by case basis. My rep has been 100% and dealer has been 100% so far. Like a police dept someone has a bad experiance with one officer the whole dept. is bad. Like factory reps not all are equal on how they do their job. I was told "all parts rear fender,filler strips,bags&lids,tank, front fender & outer fearing are going to be replaced. All parts will be painted in one place, not multiple places as production was. The same amount of clear will be used the process of appling it will take longer and done right. No date was given but a window of 2 mounths was estimated. All new parts will be inspected prior to shipping to insure all match and are proper color as inner fearing. Rep will also call me and we will meet at the dealer ship to go over new parts prior to being installed any problems and the rep will take them back to MOCO. At $ 6000. a paint job, price estimate by MOCO to fix my paint, the new parts will be right. So there is a fix. I was getting to the boiling point  >:(but after my meeting with factory rep I feel confident all will work out. I have to wait and see.

[grc]

2Lane, I would bet with you on this as being the problem.  I'm basing this on my limited experience spraying (it's been awhile) multi-clear coats over striping and art work on bikes.  [highlight]If you start hurrying and cutting corners in the process, it will look milky as it doesn't have sufficient drying/hardening occur.  It will never get much better as it's 'sealed' that way[/highlight].  I'm voting w/ you on this being the best scenario of what's caused the problem(s).  :-/ spyder

spyder,

In my not-so-humble opinion; as I've expressed here in the past, you and Twolane are dead-on.  You cannot apply multiple coats of clear, especially clear urethane, without curing the paint between coats.  Anyone who thinks differently can easily prove it to themselves.  Take any piece of scrap material, metal / plastic / whatever, prep it, and then apply several coats of any clear enamel from a spray can without letting the paint fully cure.  You will wind up with a soft finish that is anything but clear.  I believe I've read here that one person noted that his paint was "tacky" when he tried to wax it, and another who had the paint sanded and buffed reported that the paint was not cured under the surface layer.  

One thing that a lot of folks don't realize is that modern urethane clearcoats are not totally cured even when the vehicle leaves the factory.  The paint is still going through the chemical cross-linking cure process, even though the surface "feels" dry and hard.  We used to recommend waiting 30 days before subjecting a new car to polishing/waxing or automatic car washes, to reduce the swirls that would be produced (newer formulations from the paint folks have cut that time by probably half).  That was with the standard single coat of 1.5 - 2.0 mil.  

Jerry

[grc]

...................I was told "all parts rear fender,filler strips,bags&lids,tank, front fender & outer fearing are going to be replaced. All parts will be painted in one place, not multiple places as production was. The same amount of clear will be used the process of appling it will take longer and done right. No date was given but a window of 2 mounths was estimated. All new parts will be inspected prior to shipping to insure all match and are proper color as inner fearing. Rep will also call me and we will meet at the dealer ship to go over new parts prior to being installed any problems and the rep will take them back to MOCO. At $ 6000. a paint job, price estimate by MOCO to fix my paint, the new parts will be right. So there is a fix. I was getting to the boiling point  >:(but after my meeting with factory rep I feel confident all will work out. I have to wait and see.

gator,

I certainly hope that what you were told is in fact what the MoCo does.  Now the question I have is why haven't they told this to all of the dealers and the affected customers?  The longer they let the uncertainty fester, the more damage they do to their reputation.  Most of us purchased SE bikes thinking we would be receiving special bikes and special treatment. The decision to buy one tends to be more of an emotional decision than a purely rational one (a totally rational person would probably have a hard time justifying spending more on a semi-custom Harley than they did on their last car, as my wife frequently reminds me).  Right now there are a lot of folks going through severe emotional distress over their new CUSE's, and Harley needs to assure them (in writing, just like they did in '99 on the Twin Cam bearing issue) that they will make everything right.  Leaving people hanging like this is not only arrogant and cruel, but it is a very poor business practice.  Maybe H-D needs to study the auto industry and look closely at what happens when you don't listen to your customers.

Jerry

[gator]

grc, I agree and have no answer. You would think all dealers and factory reps ars on the same page, as stated prior I beleive factory reps are all differant some care some don't like dealers some stand with us 100% while other dealers are leaving customers to fend for them selves. MOCO should get everyone on the same page I don't know why they don't any involved with a major corporation may know the answer.
I thaught I need to get my head examined when I baught this bike my fifth Harley and first CVO. Was ready to throw in the towel and walk away but I'm confident everything will get fixed.

[110tHunDer]

I've taken the three threads that have the majority of the paint disucssion in them and made them stickies so they're easier to find if, in fact, the MoCo is looking for them.  Also, there were two of those that did not have the word "paint" in the title, so I added that as well.