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[vrog]

Hello,

I recently purchased a 2008 SERK. I'm looking into doing SE 251 Cams and SE 10.5 High Compression pistons on my bike. Right now I have a V&H Prop Pipe, PCIII USB and the Screamin Eagle Heavy Breather. Is there anything else that I would need, like maybe some pushrods? Is it really that easy? What should I expect the dealer to charge for this? Does anyone have a list of part #'s that did this build? Also, what do you think about putting on the Zippers Thundermax Kit with the Auto Tune? Finally, what hp/tq should I expect to see? Sorry for all the questions but after reading all these posts its time to get a new post going. Thanks in advance for your responses

[Unbalanced]

Hello,

I recently purchased a 2008 SERK. I'm looking into doing SE 251 Cams and SE 10.5 High Compression pistons on my bike. Right now I have a V&H Prop Pipe, PCIII USB and the Screamin Eagle Heavy Breather. Is there anything else that I would need, like maybe some pushrods? Is it really that easy? What should I expect the dealer to charge for this? Does anyone have a list of part #'s that did this build? Also, what do you think about putting on the Zippers Thundermax Kit with the Auto Tune? Finally, what hp/tq should I expect to see? Sorry for all the questions but after reading all these posts its time to get a new post going. Thanks in advance for your responses

I would expect you to see 110-115 tq /95-100hp with a good tune and an honest dyno in SAE.

Things you may want to consider, Adjustable pushrods (Tapered) and tubes
New Cam Bearings
New Lifters (replacement stock ones) not the SE ones or possibly S&S
Consider using the 4.89 injectors that come on the SE 50 mm Throttlebody over the 3.91 stock injectors
I would not go with the Thundermax unless you know you have a really good tuner in your area to deal with it.
Use the SE 10.5 to 1 Pistons they are pretty good (made by Mahle)
I would prefer to use the TTS Mastertune over the Zippers or the PC myself especially since you have FBW you can get rid of the lag and up your injector size and not have a piggy back of the tuner.

Hard10 on the site just did this build with true duals and I believe his numbers were 110/99 on his 07 SEUC the dyno sheet is posted.

[hard10]

I would expect you to see 110-115 tq /95-100hp with a good tune and an honest dyno in SAE.
...

Hard10 on the site just did this build with true duals and I believe his numbers were 110/99 on his 07 SEUC the dyno sheet is posted.

VERY happy with mine! I did not do the 10.5 pistons nor the SE cam plate. Pushrods are a must if you change the cam (they're a different size depending on the cam).

My setup: Rinehart True Duals, SE "roll your own" a/c, PCIII, SE 251 cams, & True Fit pushrods. Stock TB & injectors. And most importantly: a good tune.

[Unbalanced]

Err    oops sorry AJ thought you had used the 10.5 to 1 pistons.      memory failed me   or were you going to use them and decided not to ?

[hard10]

Err    oops sorry AJ thought you had used the 10.5 to 1 pistons.      memory failed me   or were you going to use them and decided not to ?

Discussed it with the dealer and decided not to. Opted for longevity over high end performance.

[vrog]

Thanks for the replies. I should put this thing on the dyno just to see where I'm at right now. My friend will handle the tuning he is very good with that stuff when it comes to race cars, he has tuned a few bikes with the SERT and he made big #'s on a 2006 procharged SE Fat Boy. He is now playing with a supercharged v-rod with the Thundermax Kit. So far the Thundermax looks impressive. I was hoping to see some higher #'s.

[hard10]

... and he made big #'s on a 2006 procharged SE Fat Boy. ... I was hoping to see some higher #'s.

This is the problem with "Dynotuners" who don't do this as a profession. How is it that your friend "made" the numbers bigger? All a dynotuner is doing is looking at a set of numbers, in real time, and making minor adjustments to air and fuel. Anyone can be tricked by "big numbers". The real benchmark is SAE numbers AND A GOOD RUNNING BIKE.

[DCFIREMANN]

Thanks for the replies. I should put this thing on the dyno just to see where I'm at right now. My friend will handle the tuning he is very good with that stuff when it comes to race cars, he has tuned a few bikes with the SERT and he made big #'s on a 2006 procharged SE Fat Boy. He is now playing with a supercharged v-rod with the Thundermax Kit. So far the Thundermax looks impressive. I was hoping to see some higher #'s.

Higher numbers don't mean squat. It is how the "seat of the pants" feel is when you are done. When you are looking at cams for a heavy bike look for lower duration numbers with higher lift numbers. There are plenty out there on the market. This will get your TQ number higher and that is what you need to move a heavy bike. HP numbers are for bragging rights only. You may also want to clean up you heads and do a good valve job with some good aftermarket valve and valve springs. If the cam you choose has a higher lift than .600 ( many do) than you want to look at a good set of roller rockers. If your tuner is familiar with the Thunder Max w/AT then go with it. Just make sure he makes you a base map when you start, not a generic map from Zippers Library. If you are close to Maryland or Virginia I have someone who is real good with it.


Have fun with your build  and keep us posted.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[vrog]

This is the problem with "Dynotuners" who don't do this as a profession. How is it that your friend "made" the numbers bigger? All a dynotuner is doing is looking at a set of numbers, in real time, and making minor adjustments to air and fuel. Anyone can be tricked by "big numbers". The real benchmark is SAE numbers AND A GOOD RUNNING BIKE.

Maybe I'm wrong but isnt tuning the bike just that, air & fuel???  Its a matter of understanding how it works and what to add and what to take away. Using the correct parts/combination is all trial and error and comes from experience.My friend made the big #'s because he programmed all of the tables, he did not start with a base map and just tweak it to our area. Boosted applications are far more complicated than naturaly aspirated. It took several hours to tune that bike. I would think 166HP/138TQ on SAE is big numbers.

A lot of people get hung up on big HP #'s from a dyno. I personally don't care about being the fastest or making the most power, Besides, you can't race a dyno. I'm just looking for a little more power without spending all the money on a supercharger.


Note             I should have pointed out that my friend tunes race cars as a profession. He has only fooled around with a few bikes, but its all basically the same theory behind it.

[vrog]

Higher numbers don't mean squat. It is how the "seat of the pants" feel is when you are done. When you are looking at cams for a heavy bike look for lower duration numbers with higher lift numbers. There are plenty out there on the market. This will get your TQ number higher and that is what you need to move a heavy bike. HP numbers are for bragging rights only. You may also want to clean up you heads and do a good valve job with some good aftermarket valve and valve springs. If the cam you choose has a higher lift than .600 ( many do) than you want to look at a good set of roller rockers. If your tuner is familiar with the Thunder Max w/AT then go with it. Just make sure he makes you a base map when you start, not a generic map from Zippers Library. If you are close to Maryland or Virginia I have someone who is real good with it.


Have fun with your build  and keep us posted.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Thanks for the reply! From what I have read, the SE255 cams that is in my bike from the factory makes the most TQ. If I were to go with the High Compression Pistons and the SE 251 cams, I would not lose any low end TQ and would gain more up top. I'm more interested in the TQ numbers because TQ is what you feel "seat of the pants". I want power from idle to 4K seeing thats where 99% of my riding is.

[DCFIREMANN]

Thanks for the reply! From what I have read, the SE255 cams that is in my bike from the factory makes the most TQ. If I were to go with the High Compression Pistons and the SE 251 cams, I would not lose any low end TQ and would gain more up top. I'm more interested in the TQ numbers because TQ is what you feel "seat of the pants". I want power from idle to 4K seeing thats where 99% of my riding is.

Do yourself a favor and look away from H/D cams right now. Just look at everything that is out and talk to a few builders and see what they recommend then and then and only then make an educated decision. You will be glad you did.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

[vrog]

Do yourself a favor and look away from H/D cams right now. Just look at everything that is out and talk to a few builders and see what they recommend then and then and only then make an educated decision. You will be glad you did.

Be Safe

THE DAWG

Care to elaborate any? This is the problem I'm having, there are so many choices out there. Looking for what people are having good luck with and decent #'s

[jfh]

Thanks for the reply! From what I have read, the SE255 cams that is in my bike from the factory makes the most TQ. If I were to go with the High Compression Pistons and the SE 251 cams, I would not lose any low end TQ and would gain more up top. I'm more interested in the TQ numbers because TQ is what you feel "seat of the pants". I want power from idle to 4K seeing thats where 99% of my riding is.

vrog,

The SE255 is about as good as it gets for TQ in your idle to 4k rpm range. Down side from the short duration and minimal overlap responsible for that great TQ is high cranking pressure and associated heat. I opted for the S&S 585 cams for the increased exhaust duration to help lower operating temperatures.  I am still in break-in mode with new Axtell jugs and flat top pistons, but suspect that I gave up a bit of that low end TQ in exchange for lower temps and a bit more power on top. Will dyno tune after break-in to quantify the results.

[Hoist!]

vrog,

The SE255 is about as good as it gets for TQ in your idle to 4k rpm range. Down side from the short duration and minimal overlap that is responsible for that great TQ is high cranking pressure and associated heat. I gave up a bit of that low end TQ when I swapped out for an S&S 585 for the longer exhaust duration to help cool the operating temperature.

And also allows it to keep pulling to over 5500 RPM! Just ask Chip!

585G is a great cam in the 110, with just under 10:1 CR! No need to go higher with this displacement!

Hoist!

[jfh]

And also allows it to keep pulling to over 5500 RPM! Just ask Chip!

585G is a great cam in the 110, with just under 10:1 CR! No need to go higher with this displacement!

Hoist!

Howie,

I am right under 10:1 and the motor is incredibly quiet with no valve train noise at all.  The Axtell jugs and pistons cured the MOCO piston slap between 2800-3000 rpm. Also got a new tag while I was at it: FTFCVO.